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Portland Jews Brace for Assault by 'Jews for Jesus' (anti-Christian Bigotry Alert!)
Torah Atlanta ^
| 2002
| Paul Haist
Posted on 09/15/2002 5:20:45 PM PDT by jstone78
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To: NativeNewYorker; 2sheep; Yehuda; Prodigal Daughter
The more aggressive the sales pitch, the more pushy the spirit... a spirit that does not take rejection very well. It must be an ego thing to *win* souls... it looks more like some sort of spiritual lotto or bingo game, rather than a love for one's fellow man. Creepy. I see that the Jews are rightfully leery of these shenanigans. There are several complaints in this thread about taking verses out of context. Well here's something that'll frost 'em:
Acts 28:27-29
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles JEWS, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews CHURCH departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
Jeremiah 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
To: rdb3
It is weak reasoning to make a comparison between an ideological stance (Jews for or against Jesus) which can be altered at will and genetic traits (skin color, etc...) which cannot (except by the idiotic Michael Jackson method) be altered given current medical techonology.
To: ReadMyMind
It is weak reasoning to make a comparison between an ideological stance (Jews for or against Jesus) which can be altered at will and genetic traits (skin color, etc...) which cannot (except by the idiotic Michael Jackson method) be altered given current medical techonology.True both in the former and latter. But I was referring to the former here. Messianic Jews take the hit as being "not authentically Jewish" for their ideological (religious) stance as conservative blacks take hits as being "not authentically black" for their ideological (political) stance.
Putrid nonsense, the both of them.
123
posted on
09/16/2002 5:56:39 AM PDT
by
rdb3
To: rdb3
Re: your #123: BIG bump. Well said.
To: HiTech RedNeck; 2sheep
One thing I am very curious about -- why would an organization which is straining so hard to distinguish its Jewish character as opposed to the "Christian Church," lean on a Bible translation that is the product of the Anglicans? If they claim they are distinct, they really ought to have their own translation. The Anglican church, which produced the KJV, would be hopelessly pagan in their view, what with their Christmas and Easter celebrations.Which organization are you referring to? Jews for Jesus or other Messianic groups? A Hispanic Messianic congregation that I know has several members who are fluent in Hebrew and read from the Hebrew Text and simultaneously translate when not reading from the Reina Valera which is the 1569 Spanish translation with a revision in 1602, of the Masoretic Text and Textus Receptus BECAUSE like its English counterpart, the KJV, its translators feared G-d, did a very painstaking job of translating, and didn't try to soften or pervert the message, unlike some of the newer perversions. Bible Gateway.com says: The Reina-Valera Antigua was first translated and published in 1569 by Casiodoro de Reina, after twelve years of intensive work, and later put out in 1602 in revised form by Cipriano de Valera, who gave more than twenty years of his life to its revision and improvement. The NIV translating team had 100 "scholars" from 20 denominations (how ecumenical!) working for ten years, but many of those scholars weren't translators, they were editorial reviewers and stylistic reviewers. Well, betcha by golly wow!
To: Prodigal Daughter
I see I'm not the only one here who avoids the NIV like the plague.
126
posted on
09/16/2002 6:11:15 AM PDT
by
rdb3
To: Thinkin' Gal
A woman at the grocery store told me her son-in-law just got fired from a decent job because every day in the lunchroom he preached. Coworkers got sick of him, and when warned by his supervisor, he refused to stop. So....fired. Now, he's asking mom-in-law to support him and the kiddies. This guy doesn't have all his marbles, far as I'm concerned.
To: jstone78
Religious proselytizing is and should remain a protected form of free speech. Jews who oppose Jews for Jesus have a right to shun them or speak out out against them. However, they do not have, and should never obtain, the right to suppress free speech that offends them.
To: jstone78
there's a new group starting up called Christians for Mohammed, which is coming to speak at your church next week. They are Christians, but believe that Mohammed superseded everything the Christians hold dear, so that the Christians need to accept Mohammed's teachings, or burn for an eternity in Hell. I hope you will welcome them with open arms, there are several dozen of them, and they have lists of phone numbers of people in your congregation and will be contacting each of you. Enjoy, and remember, they are Christians, so they are just like you. Here's a Koran.
To: jstone78
Let me know when the conversation gets around to Muslims proselitizing in America. I was brought up to be tolerant of all religions, but they didn't tell me that one of the 3 biggest religions wants to take over the world and convert people by the sword, and they would be, in my lifetime, actively trying to take over my country.
To me, the threat posed by "Jews for Jesus" to mainstream Judaism is nothing compared to this.
130
posted on
09/16/2002 6:41:53 AM PDT
by
Kenton
To: pocat
I remember when Pat Robertson (I know - he's a goof) was having those fundraisers for Russian Jews to move to Israel after the USSR dissolved. With the ultimate goal of hastening The End, no doubt. You do realise that this is an important, but little-advertised reason for our ardent support of Israel?Not the only reason for sure, but it's certainly there. It's certainly the only use some so-called "Christians" have for Jews - cannon fodder for the Apocalypse.
I thought "Wow - the Jews must really like this guy." About a week later, I heard someone on TV calling him "anti-semitic" for one reason or another.
Probably revolving around some of the claims he's made in his books regarding "international bankers," etc. Unfortunately, that's code for "Jews." Whether Robertson meant it that way I don't know.
Snidely
To: jstone78; 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal
The one group of Jewish-Americans who endure more religious bigotry than any other group, are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah. They are called Messianic Jews. Messianic Jews are persecuted throughout the world, and I understand that half a million of them were among the victims of the gas chambers of the Holocaust, HOWEVER, Jewish congregations have every right to be anti-missionary, at least while we still have religious freedom in the USA. And I don't blame them one bit! Where are these millions of dollars coming from? We are to pray for Israel, not spend millions of dollars to aggressively "convert them". Messianic Jews who have at their disposal millions of dollars, and join up with popular ecumenical, fundamentalist groups such as WOF and PK, are NOT part of the group of persecuted Messianic Jews. I know some persecuted Messianic Sephardic Jews and they are being persecuted by their evangelical, fundamentalist and/or Catholic relatives and friends, not by any Orthodox, conservative or reformed Jews.
To: rdb3
I see I'm not the only one here who avoids the NIV like the plague.I used to read the NIV, thinking that the KJV was complicated, until one day I was following along with a radio program that was reading from the NIV, but I couldn't find my NIV, so I picked up my grandma's old KJV. Something definitely "clicked" in my spirit when I started to read the KJV, not to mention that the NIV passage they were reading from used the word "slaves" where the KJV used "servants". That's when I started to investigate the NIV. It's a good translation for liberals who like to say things like "the Bible prohibitions of sins like homosexuality are outdated because after all, 'the Bible also permits slavery'." NOT QUITE! They forget to mention that in the Bible, there were laws regarding the treatment of strangers, exiles, slaves and servants, and archaeological excavations of gravesites of early Christians proves that the early Christians freed their bondservants and referred to them as brothers, while pagan civilizations were still torturing and killing slaves.
To: Thinkin' Gal; NativeNewYorker; 2sheep; Yehuda; jstone78
Bump for 121! I don't know if this link
Mission Portland (referenced by Torah Atlanta) is officially affiliated with Jews for Jesus of Portland, but Mission Portland looks like one well-funded
broad ecumenical, unbiblical aggressive lovefest. Imagine that! Portland where Christians like the
Christines and others are PERSECUTED! Where was MissionPortland?
And as far as Torah Atlanta being anti-Christian bigots, As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are BELOVED for the fathers' sakes. FOR THE GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE. Romans 11:28-29 emphasis mine.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:32
It's too bad that those millions of dollars aren't being spent to sustain and protect beloved Israel from the threat of Islamic terrorists.
To: 2sheep
It appears you are still following the cultist known as Gene Scott. Does he still smoke cigars? Is one of the criteria for being a "cultist" smoking cigars, in your mind?
To: jstone78
Yeah, that's right. I'm by no means a religious scholar, but I'm pretty sure that before the big flush, Israel and America will be the 'last men standing'.
But I'm thinking now, man, if these two groups can't get along, what hope for the rest?
To: 2sheep
You know I am in the habit of making long full text KJB quotes.
No, I don't follow your ranting. Are you famous or something that I should know you?
This thread has a strong stream of anti-semitism running through it
I sense you have a habit of yelling "anti-semitism" whenever your reckless scribbling is challenged. That speaks volumes.
A special place in Hell is reserved for people who reword the Bible to say what they want it to say! Kindly be a little more careful next time.
To: HiTech RedNeck
Now if 2sheep had put that commentary in italics to look exactly like a quotation, he would deserve to have his head handed to him (regardless of whether the interpretation was right or wrong).
I accept your point. He only implied it was a direct quotation. Since it appeared in the same format as his other prior quotations it was easy to assume he just forgot the quotes.
Too bad his follow up comments did not point out this ambiguity but instead resorted to a personal attack. But then, that appears to be his style. It masks whatever good thinking he may have to offer.
To: rdb3
Ok, when you include the conservative ideological stance as the reason for the denial of your racial identity, I agree with you, it is an apt analogy.
I'll state, lamely, in my defense that I didn't see anything in your original post to determine the reason your racial identity was being questioned and I assumed it was due to physical characteristics, not ideology.
To: ReadMyMind
I'll state, lamely, in my defense that I didn't see anything in your original post to determine the reason your racial identity was being questioned and I assumed it was due to physical characteristics, not ideology.That's okay. We just talked past each other. It's cool (waiving my two fingers towards you right in front of my eyes). That means we're "right here" now.
140
posted on
09/16/2002 1:00:40 PM PDT
by
rdb3
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