SIGNS - Neighborhood Nannies Stole my Political Yard Sign!!

Self | Sept 8, 2002 | Patrick McGuinness

[eabinga]

As for as I am concerned, they stole your sign, unless the rules state that they may remove it on their own. (Which I doubt.)

You displaying the sign is a civil matter.

Them taking it, is a criminal matter.

[Dog Gone]

No legal jurisdiction, from the federal gov't down to your school board or homeowner's nazi association, can violate your Constitutional rights. It doesn't matter if it's their "law", it's not valid.

Anyone can waive their constitutional rights.

That's what happened here.

[groundhog]

If you want to sell your house can you put up a "For Sale" sign? What about a sign by a Real Estate company? If those are allowed, then they don't have a leg to stand on with a political sign.

[Frohickey]

You should call the cops on them for 'Theft of Private Property'. That should be good for at least a misdemeanor.

[Frohickey]

One caution, though: I think you may be in jeopardy of being charged with filing a false report.

Why would it be a false report? Your property was taken without your permission. Sounds like theft to me. Pretty simple too. I bet a jury of 12 would consider that theft.

[Phantom Lord]

No legal jurisdiction, from the federal gov't down to your school board or homeowner's nazi association, can violate your Constitutional rights. It doesn't matter if it's their "law", it's not valid.

HOA's that govern PUD's (Planned Unit Development) are very powerful and on sound legal footing when it comes to enforcing the covenants of the HOA. A home buyer voluntarily enters into agreement with the HOA that they will abide by the rules of the HOA and adhere to the covenants. They are given the rules PRIOR to closing.

If you purchase a home in a PUD that has a covenant that says you can not put up a white picket fence, you can not do it and if you do, they can and will fine you and if you do not pay the fines they can and will foreclose on your house.

If they have a rule against flag poles, campaign signs, or dogs over 10 pounds you must abide by the rules or risk fine and forclosure.

But there is a little known provision in the law that most homeowners dont know about and HOA's dont want you to know about. Its called "Failure to Enforce". Basically, if a covenant is not enforced equally on all residents it is thrown out for "failure to enforce".

So, if there is a covenant against flag poles and your neighbor puts up a flag pole the HOA must act to correct the violation 'within a reasonable amount of time' or the covenant is no longer valid. Now, 'reasonable amount of time' is open to wide debate.

I like the flag pole one because a guy 5 houses over from me put one up in violation of the covenants. All the while another neighbor has been trying to get an exception to the covenants to put up a flag pole and the HOA repeatedly said no. I told him of the failure to enforce provision in the law and he went ahead and put up his pole. When the HOA sent him letters telling him to take it down he informed them of their "failure to enforce" and they have not said a word to him since.

[Dog Gone]

If you want to sell your house can you put up a "For Sale" sign? What about a sign by a Real Estate company? If those are allowed, then they don't have a leg to stand on with a political sign.

Most restrictive covenants make a specific special allowance for real estate signs.

The moral of the story is to read the covenants before you decide to buy. Most people don't, which leads to problems like this.

[the_Watchman]

Threatening to use the legal system when the person you are threatening is doing an illegal act is tantamount to extortion. I know this sounds odd, but I have a friend who ruined his chances for obtaining redress by giving such a threat. [There may have to be a third party involved, before this becomes an issue, but I think it's best just to not threaten people on suits. Just do it!]

Think about it this way, if someone is robbing a bank and you suggest that you may call the cops if they won't help you start your car, then you become complicit in the crime. If there is a crime, then it is incumbent upon you to report it, not pussyfoot around with the miscreant to get them to change their behavior.

[Phantom Lord]

If you want to sell your house can you put up a "For Sale" sign? What about a sign by a Real Estate company? If those are allowed, then they don't have a leg to stand on with a political sign.

I would bet my lifesavings that the covenants have specific exemptions for "real estate signs".

[Conagher]

lol Well, you're not really entitled to a jury in such a case.

The false report comes in when one knowingly omits material facts, I believe. If he signed the lease, his permission is not relevant.

[WOSG]

I have lived here 11 years and have had yards signs during many campaigns. In 1992 and 1994, some Bush signs were defaced and stolen, but I never had the neighborhood police after me.

I am sure Dems signs would be safe and secure in our neighborhoods.

[WOSG]

I would bet my lifesavings that the covenants have specific exemptions for "real estate signs".

They do! It's a real crock! It was written by the Real Estate company some 30 years ago.

[otterpond]

That's all true, FF, and is what drove local homeowners into the courts where they prevailed.

I have several pieces of property, one of which is in a development. The development has interesting rules like you can't change your garden without approval. Yeah, right.

[WOSG]

As for as I am concerned, they stole your sign, unless the rules state that they may remove it on their own. (Which I doubt.) You displaying the sign is a civil matter. Them taking it, is a criminal matter.

I agree. The covenants do NOT say they can steal the sign or take, just that certain signs are not allowed. ... If our roof violated some community rule, could they come and tear down our roof without our knowledge/consent???

[WOSG]

No legal jurisdiction, from the federal gov't down to your school board or homeowner's nazi association, can violate your Constitutional rights. It doesn't matter if it's their "law", it's not valid. Right!

Anyone can waive their constitutional rights. That's what happened here.

Wrong! Courts have overturned the 'racist' housing covenants that prohibited selling to blacks as violating 14th amend, likewise here they would strike it down I am sure ... I cant find a precedent, but IMHO the Gilleo case is close enough...

[Hot Tabasco]

Do what I'm going to do. I am the VP of my condo association and recognize the rules although I am apposed to all of them. One of the rules is prohibiting yard signs and political signs in general.

3 weeks before election I intend to get the biggest damn sign for my candidate and place it on my roof where it can not be taken away. By the time it takes for someone to file a complaint with the association board (which I am on) and then for the board (after a seldom held board meeting) to notify the management company to send the rotten perpetrator (me) a notice to remove the offensive sign, and then for the management company to send the letter, the election will be over. On second thought, I could probably set out the sign 6 weeks in advance because it is going to take roughly the same amount of time for action to be taken to send out the second and final notice. Heck, I could probably set out the sign tomorrow......... :)

[chaosagent]

Not necessarily. If there has been a court case addressing this at a sufficient level, it can override deed restrictions.

Deed restrictions and covenants from years ago prohibited selling your property to blacks. Government laws overruled this.

Deed restrictions and covenants said you couldn't put up a satellite dish on your house. FCC regulations overruled this. In fact HOA's can now be fined big bucks for threatening you about this.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Are you a member of a homeowner's association? If so, you gave up your "right" to do as you wish with your property (in many respects).

This is BS. My homeowners association told me the same thing years ago. I did a little research and showed them a couple of court ruling covering free speech and political signs. You can't sign away Constitution rights.

[WOSG]

Here's a Letter I am sending In Reply to get my sign back - wish me luck! ...

Dear XXXX

I was informed by your letter that claimed we violated a prohibition on yard signs, just days after our yard sign mysteriously disappeared.

Thankfully, we live in a free country still, and the prohibition that is claimed in 8.0216 of the Travis Country covenants is in clear violation of our First Amendment free speech rights. If this is not obvious enough to you or the Travis Country CSA Board, I have taken the liberty of enclosing a Supreme Court decision - City of Ladue v. Gilleo - that unanimously struck down such ordinance limits and held they violate resident's right to free speech.

I am frankly shocked this invalid restriction is being taken seriously, especially when every political season many dozens of signs appear on front yards in our neighborhood (including on my property and on the properties of current and former Travis Country Board members over the 11 years I've lived in the neighborhood). What is next? Going after the 'Travis Country Sharks' swimming team yard signs too that are commonplace?

I don't feel it should be necessary to belabor these obvious pointsat a Board hearing but I do hereby request a board hearing as soon as possible if that is necessary. But a simple alternative solution would avoid this trouble: Please reverse this so-called 'violation' and return the 'Ben Bentzin' sign that was stolen from my property so that it may be returned to its rightful place in our front yard.

I appreciate your attention and care given to our neighborhood.

Yours sincerely,

Encl: Supreme Court citation, City of Ladue v. Gilleo, 116 S. Ct. 2038 (1993)

[Dog Gone]

I'm telling you what the law is. If you can overturn it, fine.