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Lack of outrage over desecration a sign of times
Boston Herald ^ | August 28, 2002 | Joe Fitzgerald

Posted on 08/28/2002 9:15:06 AM PDT by NYer

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To: JMJ333
Your broad brush that you can't feel safe around any priests is indicitive of how uninformed or malicious you really are. And I'm willing to bet you're no Catholic.

I AM a devout Catholic, and I love my Church. That is why I cannot shup up about this. I have NOT in any way smeared all priests. But with around 1/3 of priests being active homosexuals, and with a sizeable subset of those unable to resist the temptation of teenage boys, I cannot simply trust any priest. I have no idea who that guy is. I OBVIOUSLY cannot rely on the Church to effect some sort of quality control. And I'm not alone. I do not know of one, not one, out of some twenty or so Catholic families that I know personally and well in this town who would now let their teenage sons be alone in the presence of any priest. In almost EVERY case of abuse that we've seen, the priest in question was a friend of the family, trusted by adults and kids alike. In the Church in the town next to me in New Jersey, a priest plied six teenage boys with homosexual pornographic films for weeks, before progressing to mutual masturbation and then to anal rape - on a regular basis for several years. The families were destroyed. Their faith was destroyed. The kids' psyches and their sexual development were destroyed. And this has happened on a widespread basis throughout the Church in America (and in some other countries as well). Four BISHOPS were actually involved in homosexual molestation themselves. (And I'd bet there are some others as well.) 2/3 of them have been shuffling the molestor priests around. Don't mistake me, JMJ333. Many priests are wonderful holy men. But, as we've seen, quite a few are not - and the Church has not even bothered itself (except under the force of intense media pressure) to do anything about the homosexual rapists in its ranks. In my community, people are very wary about their priests, and they will not let their sons be alone with them. And they're right - because their job is to protect their children. The priesthood is full right now of active (sometimes very active) homosexual men - who in general have a strong sexual attraction to teenage boys. And you think I'd let my son spend an afternoon at the rectory with one of the priests? That would be crazy, given the filth that has seeped into our Church. So the deal stands - but I'll widen it. When the majority of Catholic families I know in our town feels comfortable when the local priest invites their son over to the rectory for an afternoon, I'll shut up. Because, you see, that's the way it should be. Those parents should be able to have that trust. That trust should be GREATER for a priest than just about anyone else. But right now, that trust has been destroyed. Keep those earplugs. You're going to need them.

41 posted on 08/28/2002 5:57:58 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: NYer
Thanks for the ping.

What a great time to be catholic, what great graces Our Lord will send us in these times.

'Jesus, King of All Nations, may Your Reign be recognized on Earth'

42 posted on 08/28/2002 5:59:55 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: JMJ333
True. Catholics also have a moral obligation to defend the faith.
43 posted on 08/28/2002 6:03:06 PM PDT by Tadhg
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To: Robert_Paulson2; JMJ333
I bet JESUS is greived.

The Son of God, who told us that children were the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Many in the Catholic Church have betrayed God's son.

44 posted on 08/28/2002 6:06:30 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Robert_Paulson2
The leadership, laity and board members cooperated with the police, castigated the perverts, protected and relocated the victims, and paid for it CASH on the barrelhead UP FRONT. The perverts were immediately defrocked, decommissioned and then incarcerated... a virtual tar and feather frenzy ensued... and that was the END of problem.

You're lucky. In our Church, the evil just grows.

45 posted on 08/28/2002 6:07:45 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
I am not going to tolerate you smearing the 99% of decent loving priests. I've been a Catholic my entire life and will not stand by while you portray them all as sex perverts because it just isn't true.

If you loved the Catholic church you wouldn't run around this forum calling us the "anti-church" or claiming your afraid to leave your son around all priests. I have no problem with addressing the issue, but that is completely different than purposely driving people away from the Catholic church with outright lies.

You should at least get the scandel right and phrase it as an active homosexual problem. But that wouldn't fit in with your agenda.

46 posted on 08/28/2002 6:08:12 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Robert_Paulson2; JMJ333
That is what is involved in a church when a REAL repentance by leadership occurs... it has a hefty price tag. At least those churches are no longer laughing stocks in their communities...

Only God and Christ know, but I sure don't sense repentance on the part of a lot of our current Church leaders. I actually sense disdain from many of them. And as for being a laughing stock - my kids have endured, day after day, vicious jokes about our Church at karate practice, at soccer practice, at Boy Scouts, etc. And the worst of it is, the jokes are dead on accurate.

47 posted on 08/28/2002 6:10:21 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: JMJ333
I am not going to tolerate you smearing the 99% of decent loving priests. I've been a Catholic my entire life and will not stand by while you portray them all as sex perverts because it just isn't true.

Well, you don't have to, because I've never said that. What I said was that about 1/3 (from all the surveys and books I've read) of the priests are active homosexuals and a significant percentage of them can't keep their paws off of teenage boys. I have no idea where you get your 99% figure from.

48 posted on 08/28/2002 6:12:10 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: JMJ333
I have no problem with addressing the issue, but that is completely different than purposely driving people away from the Catholic church with outright lies.

If you are charging me with lying, please show me the statement I made that you believe is a lie. If it's incorrect, I'll honestly retract it.

49 posted on 08/28/2002 6:13:10 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
And again, you portray it as every one in the church is a sex pervert--a blatent misrepresentation. My son sure has never had any problem like that. No one I know either.

I suggest you leave the church--that is if you're even a member.

This is my last post on this thread.

50 posted on 08/28/2002 6:15:19 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
If you loved the Catholic church you wouldn't run around this forum calling us the "anti-church"

When 2/3 of American bishops are complicit in the psychological and spiritual rape of teenage boys, and in the allowance (and often promotion) of active homosexuality in the Church's seminaries, then I do think things have been turned on their heads. When the Catholic Church places the well-being of children on the very end of its extensive priority list, and the protection of its rapist priests and precious reputation on the top, then I think things have been turned on their heads. You have no idea how shocking and revolting a nauseating it is for me (and most I know) to discover that our children are actually being preyed upon in our Church. Again, I think things have been turned on their heads.

51 posted on 08/28/2002 6:18:00 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: JMJ333
And again, you portray it as every one in the church is a sex pervert--a blatent misrepresentation.

Please - show me where I said that. I think I know where the misrepresentation is here.

52 posted on 08/28/2002 6:18:50 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Egregious Philbin
What the couple did was meant to be an attention-grabbing, shocking publicity stunt, not an affront to the church. Perhaps "affront" isn't even the right word to use, as my dictionary defines it as: "To insult intentionally, especially openly."

Do you really beleive this? Do you think it is only a coincidence that a Catholic church was picked for this little minded stunt? People are sent into a a sacred place to perform sex for a radio show and you don't think that is an afront to the believers in that religion?

My dictionary defines Egregious as "Conspicuously bad or offensive." It certainly applies to your post.

53 posted on 08/28/2002 6:24:48 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: JMJ333
My son sure has never had any problem like that. No one I know either.

Again, six boys were serially anally raped by the pastor at the Church where my son goes to school. In addition, the brother of my good friend, while a teenager, worked on a poverty project for a month with his priest, and then the priest physically (and sexually) assaulted him. My friend's brother left the Church as a result. While the Pope was in Montreal, the former head of Seton Hall Boys School (not far away in NJ), and a friend priest, were both arrested for soliciting sex from 14-year old teenage boy prostitues in NJ. Two priests have been removed from the Catholic high school that my older son will be attending in Sept. It was recently revealed that the good friend of my bishop, Frank Rodimer, had sexually molested a teenage boy on a regular basis that he (the friend) brought to Rodimer's summer beachhouse in the summer. Rodimer says he knew nothing. And then again, Rodimer is the guy who shuffled around the priest who anally raped the six kids mentioned above (and refused to defrock him until last month). And that's just around here. Many, many other parishes and dioceses have been affected here in NJ. But of course, compared to, say Boston (where EIGHTY priests have been implicated), NJ is nothing. Let's see. EIGHTY Boston priests, molesting say, 5 or 6 boys each over many weeks and years adds up to thousands of individual sexual molestations - just in the Boston diocese. Again, JMJ333 - I'm not indicting all priests. But I am indicting the Church leadership. It's unbelievable and shameful.

54 posted on 08/28/2002 6:28:16 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: CharacterCounts
Egregious Philbin. CharacterCounts, and i'm keeping in character.

What i'm saying is this: the vilest thing about the stunt is that they probably didn't even think about how insulting it was. They probably did it because it was St. Patrick's Cathedral. A landmark.

And where does Joe Fitzgerald get off asking why "Protestant, Jewish and Muslim leaders" are "so tight-lipped?" Has he really looked into it? I'm sure that any religious person would be saddened by it. What about their reaction to the priest scandal? I'm sure they're tight-lipped on that too.

The "vilest affront" is not the anomaly, but the more persistent and pervasive problem of the priests who have perverted their profession.
55 posted on 08/28/2002 7:26:58 PM PDT by Egregious Philbin
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To: JMJ333
Catholic have a moral obligation, especially in light if the scandals, to teach the truths found within. You don't do that. Your intent is to drive people away.

You know, JMJ333, when Christ walked into the temple and threw over the money changers' tables, he was reacting in extreme anger to the desecration of what was supposed to be holy and Godly. He embarrassed those around him; he angered those enamored of the daily routine of the temple; he upset the temple priests; he refused to be quiet about the atrocity committed in that holy place. He was NOT attacking the institution of Judaism. He was attacking what evil people had done with it. I hope and pray that you can see that distinction. By the way, what is your solution to the homosexual teenage boy rape problem in our Church?

56 posted on 08/28/2002 7:32:04 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Egregious Philbin
What the couple did was meant to be an attention-grabbing, shocking publicity stunt, not an affront to the church. Perhaps "affront" isn't even the right word to use, as my dictionary defines it as: "To insult intentionally, especially openly." I doubt the insult was intentional, rather it occured because they assumed that people would find it funny or at least shocking. That they thought so makes the insult all the viler.

Excellent circumlocution! They thought people would find it funny? I'm sorry you feel that way. It's my opinion that they openly wanted to insult the church. It's your opinion that they just wanted to make people laugh or be shocked. It's fascinating to me that your seemingly-concrete positions are based on the "fact" that you "doubt" that the couple intentionally meant to insult the church. Are you kidding?!

And perhaps what a certain few priests and their enablers did is also not an affront, but it is certainly an insult. Though not by design, it is an insult to the church, and to all Catholics, and a particularly vile one at that. I believe it is the author who as failed to make a distinction. Perhaps he has chosen the wrong words. He calls the stunt a "desecration," which my dictionary defines as "to violate the sacredness of." Now who does that also describe?

Does the author say that the pedophile priests you're so heavily focused on didn't desecrate little boys? What's your point, please? Why are you not capable of condemning this act without referring to the sex scandal? What's your motive? I get the distinct impression that you believe that criticizing any blasphemy of the Catholic church is not possible as long as the priests involved in the scandal haven't been punished to the degree you see them deserving.
57 posted on 08/28/2002 7:55:26 PM PDT by andyk
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To: yendu bwam
Apparently, "rampant homosexuality among priests" = 1/3 of all priests.

You've piqued my curiosity. Could you please provide one (or preferably more than one) source?
58 posted on 08/28/2002 8:00:52 PM PDT by andyk
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To: andyk; Egregious Philbin
I get the distinct impression that you believe that criticizing any blasphemy of the Catholic church is not possible as long as the priests involved in the scandal haven't been punished to the degree you see them deserving.

Do you not see the irony and hypocrisy of Catholics getting their panties tied in knots over a sexual insult (perpetrated by consenting parties), while all their molester shuffler bishops remain parked in place, while many of their seminaries have been turned into homosexual brothels and while teenage boys are not necessarily safe from homosexual rape in the presence of priests? I would guess that most non-Catholics do. Sure, the insult was vile and upsetting. But shouldn't our focus be elsewhere right at the moment?

59 posted on 08/28/2002 8:05:30 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: JMJ333; yendu bwam
I wish I could say otherwise, JMJ333, but I'm afraid most of what yendu bwam is saying is true.

In my diocese, fully 20% of our priests are known to be active gays from our investigation so far. By 20% I mean gays who have been actively gay at some point since ordination, not just orientation. And 20% represents only the number we know about. I think the overall number is higher.

But I am in a liberal diocese. Orthodox dioceses do not suffer this problem to the extent we do.

I just don't know how many dioceses are truly orthodox, but I fear now it is a minority.

I have met too many victims now. I know too much now to believe that the homosdexual priest problem is a minor one, only involving 1-2% of all priests.

I firmly believe that 10 to 20% of all American priests are gay.

And I know that at least 1/3 of all gay men abuse teenage boys.

And of those that abuse teenage boys, they abuse multiple victims, from a handful to literally dozens and in some cases hundreds over their careers.

There have been literally thousands of innocent victims.

I know that we are finding only about 1 in 10 victims are even willing to talk about their abuse off the record in our diocese. Fewer still sue. Even fewer yet are able to press criminal charges due to statutes of limitations.

It is very bleak, JMJ333.

Different folks deal with this reality in different ways.

Some deny it.

Some accept that the crisis exists and pray earnestly for God to end it and purify it.

Some take action, either shouting from the rooftops or working behind the scenes to end it.

Some are very emotional in their outrage.

They have a right to be. Our Church is wounded and suffering, and it is because of the malfeasance of the shepherds.

Frankly I'm just as mad as yendu bwam. I'm just dealing with it differently.

60 posted on 08/28/2002 8:09:20 PM PDT by Polycarp
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