Augusta kids killed (Another Homeschool Killing)

Helena Independent Record ^ | 8/27/2002 | CAROLYNN BRIGHT

[glory]

Aha, and there is where the bias comes from. I guess you have to stick up for the old lady and justify her decision to dump your child in a kiddie mill especially when the very church you teach at differs from your values. Wonder if you've ever been brave enough to tell your fellow church goers just what you think of them and thier children?
Well here's a study for you, I've seen your "type" as well. This type of justification on the backs of stay at home parents is not a new thing by working parents. Just look at working mother magazine and the rubbish you'll find in there--lot's of self justification and refutation of studies that consistently show that daycare is substandard to mother care. You'll be pleased to know you march in line with the NOW agenda and thier opinion of stay at home mothering as well.
And no, I have no beef with working moms, but if you are going to be so callous about stay at home moms(and this was a thread about homeschooling, not the mommy wars) than I'll give you some back. I'll leave picking on your child specifically out though so that perhaps you can learn a little something from that example.

[glory]

I agree with you and wanted to point out my irritable sounding post to him above was meant to dish it back as he gave it too. I do with more mothers would stay at home, but it's not my decision to make.

[mikhailovich]

Regardless of your opinion about career women vs. stay at home moms, the majority of finger-pointing, negative comments, "studies", and the like seem to be from the stay at home camp, directed "downward" onto career women. It gets old. Dr. Laura is one of the biggest dishers out there, yet I still like nearly 100% of her ideas. The problem is that not everyone fits one mold or the other. For example, we might have a special-needs child, or maybe orphaned triplets in grade-school with costly medical needs, requiring both parents to work. Are these children better off left in the system? No. Do you see what I mean? There are good people on both sides of this issue. We just tire of people silently stabbing us on this issue, in the church, the media, and elsewhere.

[mikhailovich]

We're Baptist. We have a high regard for stay at home moms and career women both. What resulted in our teaching the class was merely an observation that the MOST disruptive children in our class over the past year come from s-h-m families. We didn't predict it, anticipate it, or even have one thought about it until it unfolded before our eyes. If anything, the post was meant to suggest that not every shm/child is perfect, and not all working parent children are heathens. Some /// MANY would have us all believe otherwise. That's all.

Don't kid yourself, there are clicks of SHM's that frown on couples who both work. Its a status thing, or something. We had no experience with this whatsoever until we became more involved in church. We've been overseas, in orphanages, etc. I don't feel the need to share my life story with you to justify my observations, let's just say I do my share to aid others, yet I see a real snotty attitude out there that is most saddening. But I trust in the Lord, and he's who leads me, not them. If I insulted you, I do apologize.

[1L]

I gave it to you twice. Go Back and find the NEA info link, (you cant post it as a link bc it is a PDF file, the page is 75 or 76.)

I did just that. There is a loose data chart on page 76 that did list your figure. However, if you had read the page a little more carefully, you would have found the word, "estimated" for the most recent year figure (i.e. 2001-2002). Further, you would also have found a more extensive data chart on page 92 where it lists "ESTIMATED AVERAGE ANNUAL SALARIES OF TOTAL INSTRUCTIONAL STAFF AND OF CLASSROOM TEACHERS, 2000–01 (REVISED) AND 2001–02." Again, we have the word estimated sticking out at us. Further, the chart lists the average by state and at the top, the total US average. I don't trust this, as I think they simply took a state average, then averaged that, which is a very inaccurate way to measure things.

I went to the web site of the American Federation of Teachers. They listed average salaries for 2000-2001. "According to AFT’s survey for the 2000-01 school year, the average beginning teacher salary was $28,986, up 4.4 percent from 1999-2000. The average teacher salary was $43,250, up 3.4 percent from the previous year -- among the smallest increases in 40 years. Teachers had an average 15.8 years of experience." Frankly, I don't trust either data. I think the AFT is about as competent as the NEA and wonder why we have nice charts and a wealth of statistics, but we can't seem to find anyone that can teach math or statistics. My guess is that the median teacher salary is somewhere around $38,000.

Whether teachers are adequately paid for what they do would be a real good debate. I would say that in some ways they are, and in some ways they aren't. I certainly wish teachers were paid more, because that would benefit me greatly. My only point here is that we can't blindly follow the myth that teachers are well paid since they get 3 months off, etc. Go find reasonable estimates of what college gradutes with an average of 15 years of experiece (AFT teacher average), including about 30% who have graduate degrees, earn and then back out 11-12 weeks off their yearly salary. I would bet that teachers still are pretty low on that list.

The problem is that based on the performance, many deserve to be low.

[1L]

No, rather it reflects that Texas teachers earn less than the Ntaional Average, however, I would submit, that once you consider actual costs of living, they come a little closer...

According to the AFT, Texas is 27th in the country in teacher salary (average, I guess). Since that's right in the middle, I would argue that makes specific Texas examples very relevent.

[KineticKitty]

WELL.. I have to say, Very well put. I have to say I agree with almost everything you've had to say. Now take a breath. lol

There are good people on both sides. ~true.

[KineticKitty]

If I remember correctly, aren't Texas teachers required to also purchase their own class supplies?

[hobbes1]

According to the AFT, Texas is 27th in the country in teacher salary (average, I guess). Since that's right in the middle,

Don't think I am being insulting by pointing out 4th grade math, but Median is VERY VERY different than Average...

[1L]

Don't think I am being insulting by pointing out 4th grade math, but Median is VERY VERY different than Average...

Absolutely, and the better determination of the true picture. Standard deviation is one of the better indicators, but I'm not getting into that for this!

Picture the average salaries of you, me, the other posters on this specific post and then Alex Rodriquez of the Texas Rangers (25 mil per year). I don't know what you or the other posters make, but I'm sure it isn't anywhere near ARod. His salary would screw the average up, but the median salary would be a better indicator of the data.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

How about a statistic of children in public schools (or private) murdered by their parents?

Exactly! I expect this couple argued about a lot of things. But the LIBERAL media walks hand in hand with the teachers' unions.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

But the LIBERAL media walks hand in hand with the teachers' unions

And vice versa!

[glory]

Very true. I'm done...LOL
glory--whose missing my little outgoing tyke who just had her first sleepover at a cousin's house:-/(btw, we already called, she had a blast and went to sleep fine! She didn't seem to have a problem with her aunt's authority when it came to following directions and such either(and her aunt works)..hmmm..how could that be? I stay home with her..ok, ok, I'm done--LOL)