Eclipse: First Flight (Revolutionary Jet, First Flight!!)

Aero-News.net ^ | 08/26/2002 | Jim "Zoom" Campbell

[Postal Worker with a gun]

Check out a BD-5
It's what I fly, you can buy them as a kit or pre-made.

[Procyon]

This is the little mammal in the last days of the dinosaurs. The sky is essentially empty, the congestion is for landing slots at 29 major airports. The Eclipse (with a single pilot) will be like a air taxi flying direct from one small close-in field to a destination close-in field. Think about a businessman who decides on 24 hour notice to fly from A to B. He calls for an air cab and it dispatches one to him for about $600 to go 1,000 miles with no connections, no security checks, no baggage checks. Even cheaper if he shares the ride. This businessman is the gravy the big airlines need to pay for all of us in the back on discount tickets.

Boeing and its clients are very afraid.

[r9etb]

The Eclipse 500 flies 355 knots and can travel 1,300 nautical miles (about the distance between Boston and Miami) at a cost of approximately 56 cents a mile to operate.

As I see it, the flaw in the analysis here is that they're putting this out as a competitor to big jetliners. This is a serious mistake, not to mention some deliberate slight of hand probably designed to snare unwary investors.

The eye-catcher here is the word "jet," as if that makes this some magical sort of plane that opens new frontiers. It's nothing of the sort, however. The real competition for the Eclipse 500 is prop-driven airplanes. Note that the performance characteristics given for the Eclipse are pretty much identical to prop-driven planes like the Beechcraft 1900D, which is currently flown by a lot of airlines -- which have three times the seating capacity and (I'm guessing) similar operating costs.

The "10,000 airports" claim is a canard: just because Eclipse is a jet doesn't make this a new market. If there were a profitable market for this sort of service, there would already be prop-driven planes serving it. (And I believe that the market for charter flights does indeed cover the niche.)

Don't get me wrong: this plane is a pretty neat gizmo. But it's not something that's opening up a virgin frontier. This release is intended for cash-cows.

[Ditto]

Boeing and its clients are very afraid.

I agree.

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[Eala]

Sounds like a lot of federalized security screeners to me!

Actually you might be able to eliminate, or at least reduce, the screening. The planes are small so they don't have the destructive capability of the jumbo jets if hijacked and crashed. And with only a few passengers the planes aren't a big target for terrorists. Yes, Pali-style suicide bombers could keep some level of security in place, but the inanity of prohibiting nail clippers would be past.

[r9etb]

Boeing and its clients are very afraid.

I doubt it. As mentioned above, Eclipse is not (or shouldn't be)competing with Boeing, but with Beechcraft and all of those other smaller planes that airlines already fly the very routes this plane is designed to serve.

[Willie Green]

We have just received word that the Eclipse 500 micro-jet has made its first flight.

[isthisnickcool]

Cool. And cheap compared to land darts (Lear Jets).

I hope they pull this off. I want one. Anyone wanna go for a ride?

[July 4th]

A fine example of American ingenuity. The engine is really cool too - hats off to the design guys at Williams.

[connectthedots]

This will drive down the costs for business travelers, which is where the majors get their profits.

[TomB]

One of the most interesting ideas I've seen recently is Skyjet. It takes private and corporate jets that are now empty after, say, taking a group from New York to Miami, on the return trip, and matches then up with people who want to go to NY. It is essentially a reservation system for private jets.

I've heard that you can actually get rates cheaper than commercial, if you are flexible (and lucky). But many more jets need to be put in the system before the rates really fall.

If you go to the website you can try booking a reservation yourself and see what it costs.

[Hostage]

I agree, this is really sweet. But I have to play devil's advocate here.

What's to prevent a group of jihad psychos from taking off in one of these?

I think any Eclipse airline is still going to have to screen passengers. Worse yet there is no cabin door to block access to pilot seats.

Believe me I want the convenience as badly as anybody, and I certainly don't want my privacy invaded everytime I decide to fly. As a matter of fact, I've been thinking of getting a pilot license myself just to avoid the ordeal at airports. Wish I could afford one of these, or maybe take a partnership in one?

[js1138]

Do the math...

Here's my math. The Eclipse costs 1 million vs 25 million. It carries 5 passengers vs 150. To me, that means 1/30 the passengers for 1/25 the cost. Fuel and such additional.

The main savings is in time not wasted at major airports, and time not wasted commuting to major airports, and time not wasted at central hubs. Basically an affordable, long range air taxi.

Looks much cheaper than MagLev and other rail options, plus, one of these things would have trouble taking out a McDonalds if used as a flying bomb.

[SamAdams76]

This six-seater that flys for 56 cents a mile will revolutionize air travel. Consider the following scenario:

There is a small airport in Bedford, MA which is about 15 minutes from where I live and I often travel to Edison, NJ on business, which is also by a small airport about 15 minutes away. It normally takes me close to five hours to drive there and I have to deal with NYC traffic.

These two points are 210 miles apart as the crow flies. At 56 cents a mile, the cost of the trip is $117. Divide that by six passengers and the cost drops under $20 per person. Not bad for what used to be a four or five hour drive! Not to mention the fact that I can now get from my house to my company's office in Edison, NJ in just over an hour (assuming a 40 minute flight time at about 400mph)!

Expect to see thousands of these aircraft flooding our skies and a lot less 737s. Hopefully these planes are quietier!

[taildragger]

A BD-5, My hats of to you Sir. What Mods? I hear that Harry Ribblett designed a new center-section airfoil that really changed the way your Bird flies. Do you have any of Seth Anderson's Mods?

[js1138]

There is not much security in the private aviation world. I know a guy who rented a private plane last November. He wanted to pick it up on a Friday after work. The Owner said he wouldn't be there, but not to worry, he'd leave the keys in the ignition.

[taildragger]

"Believe me I want the convenience as badly as anybody, and I certainly don't want my privacy invaded everytime I decide to fly. As a matter of fact, I've been thinking of getting a pilot license myself just to avoid the ordeal at airports. Wish I could afford one of these, or maybe take a partnership in one?"

Hostage, you are there target market. One of there goals is to have let say 4 pilots co-buy one and sorta time-share it. At 200K apiece, it look like a steal compared to a brand new Cessna 172. You hit the nail on the head.

[Ditto]

Note that the performance characteristics given for the Eclipse are pretty much identical to prop-driven planes like the Beechcraft 1900D, which is currently flown by a lot of airlines -- which have three times the seating capacity and (I'm guessing) similar operating costs.

Wrong. Very low operating costs.

From the article:

The Eclipse 500 flies 355 knots and can travel 1,300 nautical miles (about the distance between Boston and Miami) at a cost of approximately 56 cents a mile to operate.

It has significantly lower Operating Costs than a piston engine and even lower then a conventional jet engine. The engines are not like conventional jet engines. They are derived from cruise missile technology. It's low purchase price and operating cost put it in the range to serve as a point-to-point air taxi as opposed to the scheduled service that the Beachcraft is locked into. It puts it in range of thousands of small and mid-sized corporations who currently spend bundles to have their key people spending half of their lives stuck in hub airport hell. It also opens up an entirely new jet taxi industry for both business and vacation travel. Imagine you and 3 of your buddies want to spend a few days golfing at some resort 500 miles away. You can afford to charter this bird rather than spending half your vacation getting there and getting back either driving or doing the hub and spoke madness.

[TomB]

What's to prevent a group of jihad psychos from taking off in one of these?

What's to stop a group of jihad psychos from taking off in ANY private jet?

What makes this one so special?