Posted on 08/21/2002 10:22:21 PM PDT by Nix 2
The is nothing "utopian" or "communistic" about wanting the Federal Government to fit back into its Constitutional leash.
Main Entry: com·mu·nal
Pronunciation: k&-'myü-n&l, 'käm-y&-n&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Late Latin communalis, from Latin communis
Date: 1811
1 : of or relating to one or more communes
2 : of or relating to a community
3 a : characterized by collective ownership and use of property b : participated in, shared, or used in common by members of a group or community
4 : of, relating to, or based on racial or cultural groups
- com·mu·nal·ize /k&-'myü-n&l-"Iz, 'käm-y&-/ transitive verb
- com·mu·nal·ly adverb
Pay special attention to 3A. This describes the central basis for Communism, got it?
Now, go here. Private ownership of property and the means of production. Free Market. A strong emphasis on individual Rights, Individual repsponsibility, and individual freedom. You've got to be kidding me if you think this in anyway relates to any type of "utopian" quakery or Communism.
Sounds a little like the original dream of at least some the Founding Fathers doesn't it? Those that weren't Torries, Whigs, or wanna-be Royalty at least.
Up until that post, you have been a staunch Bush-bot and an avid Drug Warrior.
All this is moot in regards to this thread however.
Admit it, you just saw the word "Libertarian" and got your panties in a twist didn't you...
It's amazing how many folks think that this is a serious effort.
The premise of the idea should be tried. If there isn't enough support for it, so be it. Just dismissing the idea out of hand is just plain stupid. We cannot continue on the path we are on know without destroying our Country. The abuses of power in government are gaining speed, not slowing down as we'd hoped. Keeping on with more of the same is insane.
This NEEDS to be tried if we are to dodge Tyler's 200 year prediction on the average age of a civilisation.
The objective here is to take over an entire state, not a rural town.
Nevada is your best option, as it is the least populated state. However, it still has about 2 million people, of which about 1.5 million are in the voting ages. Assuming that the turnout for Nevada elections is similar to elsewhere in the US, that translates to about 750,000 votes. This translates to 8% of the vote. That would, on a statewide level, shift the gubernatorial outcome. It will not be sufficient to shift more than a few seats in the statehouse. You're going to need a LOT more bodies, clustered in the high-population regions (Reno and Las Vegas).
The premise of the idea should be tried.
The premise should be examined. I have done so, and I have identified its fatal flaw.
If there isn't enough support for it, so be it.
The low number of people proposed, compared to the large number required, shows that Walter Williams has opted for intellectual weasel-whacking--and he OUGHT to know better. (In the good old days, they used to require economists to take mathematics courses.)
Just dismissing the idea out of hand is just plain stupid.
So is just drinking the Kool-Aid.
We cannot continue on the path we are on know without destroying our Country. The abuses of power in government are gaining speed, not slowing down as we'd hoped. Keeping on with more of the same is insane.
Proposing unworkable solutions is even more insane--it wastes efforts that would be better applied elsewhere.
This NEEDS to be tried if we are to dodge Tyler's 200 year prediction on the average age of a civilisation.
Sorry, our problems with Western Civilization are much more systemic than can be fixed with 20,000 people.
Gotta start somewhere. 20,000 free market capitalists moving into one area should be able to make one hell of an impact on that States economy. There really isn't any way to predict the rest of the States reaction to what WW and Co. have in mind. What they are hoping for is that by leading by example, they can draw the rest of the State in. Freedoms got kind of a snowball effect to it. Witness the Bomm-time of the Internet before the government started stomping all over it.
Nevada is your best option, as it is the least populated state. However, it still has about 2 million people, of which about 1.5 million are in the voting ages. Assuming that the turnout for Nevada elections is similar to elsewhere in the US, that translates to about 750,000 votes. This translates to 8% of the vote. That would, on a statewide level, shift the gubernatorial outcome. It will not be sufficient to shift more than a few seats in the statehouse. You're going to need a LOT more bodies, clustered in the high-population regions (Reno and Las Vegas).
Actually, Nevada's turnout for the 2000 election was quite that high. On most of the county level turnouts, excepting Clark and Washoe counties, 20,000 voters more would more than double the turnout. Everyone around here keeps talking about how Bush has to take baby steps to get things done. Why should it be different here?
The premise should be examined. I have done so, and I have identified its fatal flaw.
Not much of a flaw really. On an extension of that idea, why do you seem to think that promoting personal responsibility, the free market, and personal freedom would be such a flop? Do you really believe that quite a few people WOULDN'T jump on this bandwagon once things got rolling? At least they'd jump once they were sure the government was going to roll into town and do their usual Head-Stomping routine.
The low number of people proposed, compared to the large number required, shows that Walter Williams has opted for intellectual weasel-whacking--and he OUGHT to know better. (In the good old days, they used to require economists to take mathematics courses.)
Baby-steps. If you guys can say that that it was it will take for Bush to get things done, then it should hold that adding 50%+ to the voting block of a county would be an excellent place to start. Also, as I've shown, the numbers required may not be as high as you think.
So is just drinking the Kool-Aid.
So now you are equating Freedom with Jim Jones. Brilliant. Next you'll be saying that the Bill of Rights are just suggestions.
Proposing unworkable solutions is even more insane--it wastes efforts that would be better applied elsewhere.
Tell that to the Founders who wrote the Constitution. A lot of people thought they were nuts. The LP bases quite a bit of their political theory off of Locke and others.
Sorry, our problems with Western Civilization are much more systemic than can be fixed with 20,000 people.
So you are just going to sit on your ass and cheerlead for those who keep on burying us deeper into this bureacracy? Name one thing this Congress, or President, has done since 2000 to make Federal Government smaller and less intrusive. You can't, because they haven't. In fact, spending has increased yet agian. Taxes have gone up, despite Bush's back-handed pitance he through our way. More arms are being added to the Federal Octopus. Now we are pussy footing around with PC, UN bullshit in this Forever War against Terror instead of doing the AMERICAN thing of kicking thier asses.
How much effing worse does it need to get before you figure it out Poobah?
Yeah. It would completely crash and burn whatever rural county they settled in.
There's a REASON that those counties don't have higher populations. Leave it to Libertarians to not understand that reason, even as they proclaim to be foursquare for that reason.
There really isn't any way to predict the rest of the States reaction to what WW and Co. have in mind.
To causing a water emergency in a rural county? They'd LOVE cleaning up that mess--and I don't think they'd really like the people who made it.
What they are hoping for is that by leading by example, they can draw the rest of the State in.
Like I said: the only place where you can have a decisive impact is in an area that's maxed out on minor things like water.
Freedoms got kind of a snowball effect to it. Witness the Bomm-time of the Internet before the government started stomping all over it.
Yeah, let's repeat the dot-bomb fiasco AND start a new round of range wars. Brilliant idea.
How much effing worse does it need to get before you figure it out Poobah?
I've figured it out, all right. I've just blasphemed your idol, Walter Williams.
Nevada was your idea. Refer back to the website for the reports on the areas under consideration.
Let's cut the rest of this short, shall we? You hate America. You don't want people to have freedom. The idea of a free market economy scares the beejezus out of you. You love bigger and badder government.
Does that about sum up your position? You've already shot down the counter positions that the LP holds, so above should be pretty accurate.
Let's cut the rest of this short, shall we? You are a subhuman piece of filth with no sense of shame or decency.
Does that about sum up your position? You've already shot down the counter positions that the LP holds, so above should be pretty accurate.
I see. The LP is the repository of The One True Divine Revelation of Freedom, I am a heretic, and there is no way any reasonable person can disagree with the Holy Scripture of the LP Platform.
You have Freepmail.
Excellent way to try and ignite a flame-war Poobah. Name calling. I bring up a point where the LP wants to expand or return freedoms to us that the Founders tried to base this country on, and you dismiss it in a rude way as insanity. What impression am I supposed to be getting here Poobah.
I see. The LP is the repository of The One True Divine Revelation of Freedom, I am a heretic, and there is no way any reasonable person can disagree with the Holy Scripture of the LP Platform.
Don't be snide. You aren't all that good at it. No. In fact, there are some ideas that the LP itself comes up with that run contrary to libertarian ideology. What the Free State Project is trying to get going is one of those subgroups of libertarian though called Minarchism. This directly relates to Lockian philosophy of government in the least. Hardly Holy Scripture, but Freedom was one of the ideals behind the whole Declaration and Constitution thing. Or had you forgoten?
You have Freepmail.
So do you. I reject the statement contained in your Freepmail. I will post where I damn well please, for as long as I please, and with whom I please, until the owner of this site sees fit to boot me. From the tone of your postings, I'm willing to bet I'll be here long after you are on to your next couple of screen names.
If you harm yourself, no matter how you do it, then no one else is responsible for the outcome. No one else has a moral responsibility to pony up their cash to help rehab, bury, or provide any other medical treatment for you. Period.
Italics are for emphasis only, but they are my words alone. I don't know if the rest of the LP'ers out there feel a similar way. You'd have to ask them. Now... if I wanted to voluntarily help someone out... then all well and good. Being FORCED to do it is just plain immoral.
Got that?
Okay. What does that have to do with a bunch of minarchists wanting to legally move in to a town, take over politcally and economicaly, and run a "Grand Experiment, Part II"?
As one earlier poster stated very succinctly "they can't build anything they just infest".
Are you SURE you are not a democrat?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.