Posted on 08/21/2002 9:34:08 PM PDT by niki
Well, I understand your point of view, but the reason I think this was "worse" is because apparently the cops just drove up and arrested everyone at the place, a place where people were dining. While at the K-Mart raid, they arrested people hanging out in a parking lot(yes, I will admit that they probably had no right to arrest the people at Sonic without a specific complaint about a specific person who was asked to leave).
Its not really worth discussing anymore(K-Mart). The cops didn't do it right. People(in the parking lot) should have been given citations. I agree with doing the raid, but not how they did it. Maybe the charges will be dropped and the kids will understand that they are not to hang out in parking lots in the middle of the night with 400 of their closest friends.
There is no doubt that these gatherings are a nuisance to the neighborhoods. The problem is that no law is being broken by the kids being there.
The cops need the permission of the property owners to run the kids off, which they may or may not have had. If they do have the permission, and the kids refuse to leave, then they may be arrested for criminal trespass. But they have to be given a chance to leave.
If there is a fight or something like that, or if motorcyclists are doing wheelies and are being loud or dangerous, an arrest could be made for disturbing the peace. That is what the police should have focused on.
But there is nothing illegal about people getting together on private property and having a good time, which is essentially what was going on here.
Apparently, police believed that these gatherings preceded some street racing, and this was sort of a staging area. Stopping street racing is an appropriate police function. But what they should be doing is patrolling the places where street racing occurs and stopping it there.
I have sympathy for those people who have their homes or apartments adjacent to these parking lots, but it essentially comes with the territory. If they don't like it, they should move to a quieter neighborhood. Anybody who lives within a block or two of Westheimer needs their heads examined, anyway. The street is a madhouse, especially on weekends.
Exactly which poster are you referring to, if I may ask?
There is always more to the story than what those who are arrested initially want to tell you. It doesn't seem like the Houstin Chroncile is too interested in printing the responses of those who had complained, though.
Not to continue a silly argument, but I respectfully disagree with you here. I am quite sure the cops have the right to disperse a crowd the size of the one in question. No, I can't point to the specific law, but the cops do not need the owners permission to disperse a large crowd that is obviously not invited to be where they are.
Many of us simply wish "cops" would use common sense in many situations instead of "just following orders". Well, I think its common sense that a crowd of 400+ was not invited to hang out in a parking lot at 12:30 am. Arrest them? No. Hand out citations if its known that this crowd comes there week after week? Yes. The kids do not have to be told not to come there and hang out. They know they are not suposed to. That's common sense.
At 1:30 AM? I actually would love to know why these three were out at 1:30, eating, with a two-year old. One of the kids parents obviously wasn't there. The mother of them all was at her home. This all sounds strange.
Coello's sister-in-law and niece were left behind, stranded. Police took Coello, her brother and sister to jail.
Again, this is strange. These "show no mercy" cops didn't arrest this one for a reason. Weird stuff. I would love to know the whole story.
One of the reasons I don't take the liberal fish wrap anymore. I can get on the internet and get several sides to a story and not depend on one source for my info as many do.
The police don't have the right to come onto your property and tell people to leave just because there are a lot of people present. It doesn't make any difference if you haven't specifically invited a crowd, as long as you permit it. As soon as YOU don't want the people there, YOU can demand that they leave. You can even have the police make that demand on YOUR behalf.
If the people refuse to leave, they can be cited or arrested. But the cops can't come onto your property and cite or arrest people that you have permitted to enter.
Amazing how many people have forgotten
Amendment I.Particularly the (armchair) drug warriors and the law and order uber alles typesCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Texas Mom: One of the reasons I don't take the liberal fish wrap anymore. I can get on the internet and get several sides to a story and not depend on one source for my info as many do.
Is this the article the vast left-wing conspiracy doesn't want you to see?
Kmart neighbor: What took the police so long?
By CHRISTINE McDONALD
I am a resident of the west Houston neighborhood near the Kmart where Houston police arrested 278 people early Sunday. And I am angry.
Every Saturday night for the past nine to 10 months, those of us living nearby have had to put up with these teen gatherings. I applaud the police for the arrests this past weekend. I only ask: What took so long?
Typically, these gatherings start coming together around 10 p.m. and continue until 3 a.m. Car stereos are up loud. They race in circles around the parking lot "burning rubber" (or whatever the current terminology is) and race each other out onto and up and down this section of Westheimer.
It is almost impossible -- and downright dangerous -- to enter into the Kmart parking lot because cars are everywhere, either blocking entrances and exits or moving at a high rate of speed. And take a walk around the parking lot on any Sunday morning after this crowd has left, as I have done. You will find it full of trash and empty alcohol bottles.
After a long work week it is extremely distressing to have to put up with this noise weekend after weekend. I have been so extremely tired that I have wanted to cry. It is impossible to sleep. I can't remember the last time I got to sleep before 3 a.m. on a Saturday night/Sunday morning. I've talked to my neighbors and I'm not alone. Some have moved and some have considered moving.
Several of us have called police to complain. Prior to this past weekend, we were told that nothing could be done because the incidents were occurring on private property. However, I have witnessed police coming to the Kmart lot two to three times over the past six months and asking those assembled to leave. They do so for that night but are back the very next Saturday.
Don't believe that the teens had no warning before this past weekend. They did.
I am angry at their parents. For any parent out there who thinks police went too far, I say: Feel free to invite 200-plus teenagers to your place every Saturday night and then let them keep you and your neighbors awake and tear up your neighborhood. You're welcome to it. We don't want it any more in our neighborhood.
I'm also happy the cars got towed. I've seen and heard these cars weekend after weekend, and I hope the towing fee on top of any arrest fine will hit these teens and their parents in their pocketbooks. Often (and sadly) it is only after money becomes involved that people sit up and take note.
I also find it very interesting that parents are now questioning the police when many had obviously not been questioning their teens over the past few months to find out where their child was and what he or she was doing. Is this belated reaction to the arrests really just guilt because the parents were in denial about what had been going on? Would these parents rather wait until their child died or killed someone else in a street-racing accident?
Finally, these parents should be questioning why 200 teenagers are gathering in the same place on a Saturday night. We all want to think the best of our children, but c'mon folks, let's not be naive. Among teens, this was the place to be. It wasn't coincidence. It wasn't the case that these teens just "happened to be passing or shopping when the police arrived." They were there for the thrills and racing.
Seems this isn't a new problem.
10 months?
Maybe it wasn't handled real well but the kids were given sufficent notice they decided to ignore.
I think one thing that would help us all more understand the situation is if we knew the configuration of the K-Mart, Sonic and the parking lot. If the lot is large, and the Sonic is 100, 150 yards away from the K-Mart, then we have two separate issues in my opinion. It would be obvious as to who was at Sonic, and who was just hanging around in the parking lot that adjoins the two places. The letter that was written to the paper by a neighbor says the kids were "all over" the parking lot. Assuming what she says is true, then its likely that any legitimate patron of K-Mart stayed away from there on Saturday nights. Like I have said before, the cops really had no right to bother anyone at Sonic unless they had gotten a specific complaint from Sonic about a specific person or people.
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