VAN DAM MURDER VERDICT [VERDICT IN: GUILTY!]

ABC radio

[hoosierham]

"The players in the case, except for little Danielle, are so despicable they ought to all be in jail"

We agree on that!

[connectthedots]

I do not think the prosecution established Dw's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Last week, when many people criticized you for saying that DW was guilty, I did state that no one should lightly dismiss Congressman Billybob's take on the case. As in most cases, you were correct.

Ito was a push-over for the defense in the O.J. trial, while it appeared top me that Mudd was pretty much a push-over for the prosecution in the DW case.

It will be interesting to hear the comments of the jurors in this case; especially why they discounted to bug evidence and the absence of evidence that DW was ever in the VD home.

[cynwoody]

Westerfield molested the child with the sick "parent's" permission

Where would your molestation scenario fit in the time line? Assuming the jury got it right, Westerfield snatched the girl sometime between leaving the bar, close to midnight and under the influence, and the next morning, when Brenda called 911.

The prosecution presented no evidence to show that DW invaded the girl's house. Therefore, it seems to me, in order for the verdict to be correct, DW must have come across the girl sleepwalking in the street after midnight and managed to grab her without anyone seeing or hearing anything. Then he presumably molested and killed her and dumped the body in the desert while leaving a remarkably faint trail behind in the motor home. And, of course, the bugs were kind enough to delay their infestation of the remains so that Feldman would have a card to play at the trial.

Yep. Reaffirms my faith in American courts and juries.

[Types_with_Fist]

Westerfield molested the child with the sick "parent's" permission. He killed her, and they covered up their own crimes, which included dumping the body.

And Westerfield took the rap and covered their complicity because...?

[truth_seeker]

BTW this will not be overturned on appeal. This is an airtight conviction. I'm just amazed it took so long. My guess is that they were hung up on the "special circumstances" allegation.

I listened real careful, when they read the verdicts. The porn verdict was dated 13 Aug. 2002.

Not being an attorney, I don't profess to know the technical ins and outs. It doesn't look like anything is wrong with the case, for appeal.

The SaveDave fanatics were obsessed from the very start with Swinging. To them, nobody else but the Van Dams could be guilty, not anybody, not even poorDave.

They have conjured up a world, where blood isn't blood, hair isn't hair, fingerprints aren't fingerprints, DNA isn't DNA, porn isn't porn, etc.

Aber "bug science" uber alles.

[Freedom2specul8]

In case you missed my reply...I got stuck over there having some fun..

I understand what you are saying, but I just can't agree. Having empathy or sympathy for a parent's loss does not equate with supporting a bad lifestyle.

What I didn't say over there was we simply don't know..he really could have been lying in wait...before he knew what their weaknesses were or what there lifestyle was. We just don't know...

[lawdude]

Are you sure you're a lawyer?

I am a lawyer. I can tell because I admit my mistakes. Are you an assh*le?

[truth_seeker]

I hope these threads get the death penalty. But I'm afraid we'll never hear the end of how this "good man" was framed by a vast conspiracy of swingers, law enforcement, crooked judges, crooked attorneys and stupid jurors.

From the beginning, the topic was hijacked by a group, who were obsessed with Swinging. Civil discussion was impossible. They have ridiculed and abused folks, who felt Westerfield was guilty.

The Smokey Backroom exists, mainly because of the lack of civil discourse by the SaveDave gang.

[Freedom2specul8]

"Civil discussion was impossible"

I was getting ready to ask if you knew about the smokey room and then you answered. Boy did a few of them let loose over there today..

Wear your hip waders!

[TomB]

You know, I followed this trial only peripherially, watching the news coverage and court tv, and then going to the Westerfield Trial thread du jour. I honestly couldn't figure out what they were talking about because the case looked very strong to me, but every day I read on these threads how the prosecution was getting demolished. I even thought about posting a few questions to one, but after seeing how "non-beleivers" were treated, I decided to stay away. Their belief in his innocence went way beyond fanatical.

[OldFriend]

I believe the material depicted minors engaged in VIOLENT sexual activity.

[connectthedots]

The porn was used to emotionally charge the jury, against the already massive barrage of media spin against Westerfield. The porn charges -- especially sans experts to testify as to weight in motive -- should have been a seperate proceeding, and not in the murder trial.

I wholeheartedly agree with this comment.

[cynwoody]

Guess NAMBLA's web site is under construction or the plug got pulled ...

Um, wouldn't it be NAMGLA in this case?

[Amore]

Sure, I'll give you a high-five. I also applaud your restraint in responding. I can't believe she would really think that, at this stage of the proceedings, someone who is convinced the guy is guilty and who had that opinion confirmed by the jury -- which saw all the evidence and deliberated for hours and hours and hours -- is somehow going to change their mind later!

[bvw]

What's one of the key relations between the OJ and the Westerfield case? You have just said one of the big ones!

Ito was a pushover for the defense in the OJ trial; Mudd was a pushover for the prosecution in the Westerfield case.

[Valpal1]

The have lost it badly over there. Pretty funny stuff!

[agrandis]

I share all of your doubts for all of the same reasons.

I was speculating that the molestation was ongoing before the child's death. My only reasons for this speculation was the DNA in his motorhome, the Van Damme's lifestyle, the fact that DW knew them, and was perhaps close, and the fact that he had (as I understand it) categorized, stored kiddie porn. These coincidences make me think that the man may not be completely innocent, but I agree that, from what I could follow of the trial, there was more than reasonable doubt, and had I been on the jury, with the evidence that I was able to see NOT being on the jury, I would have held out for "not-guilty" until we all rotted in the jury room.

The whole thing is very sad and disgusting. I'm not sure Westerfield is innocent in any sense of the word, but the prosecution sure didn't prove their case to my satisfaction. As an entomologist who has studied forensic entomology, and my understanding of the entomological data, it seems almost 100% to me that the girl was put whre she was found while DW was under constant surveillance. That's the creepiest thing to me about the case, and really the only thing that got me following the case at all.

BTW, what was the nature of the DNA found in his motorhome? Hair? Skin? Blood?

[Freedom2specul8]

LOL I know, it sure was. That jackass pic just about made me roll.. such a funny pic!

[agrandis]

Perhaps the porn charge being lumped with the murder/kidnap will be grounds for repeal?

[f.Christian]

, it seems almost 100% to me that the girl was put whre she was found while DW was under constant surveillance.

Have you ever seen maggots migrating(crawling)...flies transporting them---I have!