A clear and present danger: Ashcroft scheme simply chilling

HoustonChronicle.com ^ | Aug. 16, 2002, 7:49PM | Turley is a professor of constitutional law at George Washington University, in Washington, D.C.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..I am aware of the Muslim "rape gangs" running rampant in Aus. although I doubt if many here are....

PS: they are no longer running rampant, hombre. They have been busted, and the leader was sentenced to 55 year's jail with a non-parole period of 40 years here in Sydney last week. Regards, By.

[bruoz]

"You might get the pleasure of reeducation like my great grandfather and his 5 brothers....in the woods with 45 cal pistols to the backs of their heads."

Won't happen to me unless I run out of ammo.

[Stavka2]

Byron ol friend, AG Ashcroft isn't after you. Doubt there are very many Aussies on his "short list." perhaps that one psycho that was in the news-but he was on everyone's list. Padilla has a "history." We don't know all of it. We may never. But we do know he is a convicted murderer, drug-dealer and gang-banger and we know where he came from and who his friends are (were). Many anyway. Not exactly a stand-up guy. Perhaps Ashcroft is keeping him and others for their own protection?

Do you even have a clue what due process and the Bill of Rights and Constitutional Protections mean? It's obvious you don't. Hope you never have to find out what it's like to live without it....though you seem to be quite happy to rid yourself of them.

[Stavka2]

John Lindt Walker (or whatever - I'm not from Marin) turned on America - that makes the fact that he was born and lived here null and void!

First: WRONG. What it makes him is a member of a recognized foreign government's military, which makes him no longer a US citizen, there fore he can also not be tried by the US. He should be handed back over to the Afghan tender mercies. As for whom I was referring to, it was Padillo.

[Stavka2]

except one of these Germans was actually a U.S. citizen

Wrong. Once he joined the military of a recognized foreign power, he lost his citizenship. Padillo was never a member of an established enemy military.

[Stavka2]

As strange as it may seem, the United States actually has a precedent for declaring war against groups ¡Ìeven vague, nebulous groups- rather than nations.

Here's the precedent: Two centuries ago, piracy was a constant threat to American ships and harbours. So much so that the Constitution laid out parameters for their punishment.

In 1801, under this article, the American Congress authorized President Thomas Jefferson to send the U.S. Navy to fight the Barbary pirates along the coastline of northern Africa. These pirates weren't a nation, didn¨ˆt have a capital, national anthem, or embassy - but this made no difference.

Tripolite War

[Stavka2]

Without our lives, what good are our liberties?

Then allow me to restate the question: "without our liberties, what good are our lives?"

[nopardons]

No, they didn't ! They issue it against a Caliph ( sp ? ) and wound up paying him off, even though Jefferson said that the USA would NEVER do so.

Last October, when a battle was ragging here, about how Congress should declare war against OBL / the Taliban, whomever, someone posted the actual documentation, about the Barbary Pirates. Go find that, in the FR archives; don't just take my word for it. What you posted, is incorrect. LOL

[Stavka2]

By the way, how about all those Irish in the US who support actively the IRA, which in turn trains and supports the FARQ and Bosque Sepertists? I think all those Irish should be locked up, no questions asked. I hear there are some nice salt mines we can throw them in to work.

[Texasforever]

By the way, how about all those Irish in the US who support actively the IRA, which in turn trains and supports the FARQ and Bosque Sepertists? I think all those Irish should be locked up, no questions asked. I hear there are some nice salt mines we can throw them in to work.

I have no problem with that.

[Stavka2]

Well he was an ex cavalry colonel and a vet from WW1 and the Civil War...didn't stop him from being purged...er...reeducated.

[Crazymonarch]

Your right were going after Saddam because he's a madman...madmen don't stay in power 23 years,rat cunning people however do,...he has weapons of mass destruction...China has more and has stolen all our technology to be better than us why not start there?...he gassed his own people...so did Clinton and Reno,...human rights...why not start in Zimbabwe,...he might be linked to Al Quida...Saudi Arabia definately is,...he has nuclear weapons...I do trust the Mossad knows more than John Ritter on this,the moment he gets on,he'll get one used on him...he tried to kill my daddy and we want to control 90 percent of the worlds oil resources...now were getting somewhere.

John Howard legitimately helped in Afghanistan despite the fact it really was a business deal gone bad,Powell gave the Taliban 5 million last May 2001 knowing full well what scum they were,in fact what scum they all are KLA PLO etc etc CIA trained the lot,its the CIA director that keeps going to Arafats rescue.I hope he seriously considers our next engagement China,North Korea,Syria,Iran theres too many that might go up when this happens,it may not just be watching Roger Ramjet videos on CNN all these outfits know whats been threatened and might decide a team is the best way to go and as with the Roman Empire the Goths,Visygoths and Huns are allready within our borders.I have serious reservations about anything other than a negotiated Idi Amin like escape for this chap...then let someone sort him out later

[Recovering_Democrat]

You might get the pleasure of reeducation like my great grandfather and his 5 brothers....in the woods with 45 cal pistols to the backs of their heads.

Excuse me? Is this a threat? Consider yourself reported for abuse, comrade. And you might be lucky if you're not contacted by my attorney.

[Recovering_Democrat]

None bigger, I might add, than the current one; that puny Iraq, and its tinpot dictator, somehow represents a threat to the awesome might of the USA.

Yeah, just like ol' whacky Adolph was just an eccentric Austrian who'd taken over Germany...until he moved on all of Europe.

Swallow all the Democrat liberal/Eurotrash swill you want. I'm glad someone who takes threats to world stability seriously is in the White House.

Little wonder the Continent comes running to America when dictators over run them.

[Texasforever]

You are aware that the "war" against the Barbary Pirates was not a "declared" war right? That it was prosecuted under a Joint congressional resolution EXACTLY like the resolution passed for the War on Terror? You know that right?

[Boomer Geezer]

FYI, here's a few that I've found:

Was there a Congressional Declaration of War on the Barbary Pirates? ( Maybe not!)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/575174/posts

The War On Terror Isn’t The First: Young U.S. Faced ‘Barbary Pirates’ ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/539836/posts

America and the Barbary Pirates: An International Battle Against an Unconventional Foe ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/626671/posts

Barbary pirates still at it: Richard Grenier finds interesting parallel to current war efforts ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/529902/posts

Don't know if this will help the discussion ... not fast here with posting all this fancy stuff. I believe there were a few more articles along these lines, but these were the only ones where "Barbary Pirates" showed up in the search of titles. I don't know if there is a way of doing a search of the post itself.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..yeah, just like ol' whacky Adolph was just an eccentric Austrian who'd taken over Germany...until he moved on all of Europe...

RD, there is no comparison between Hitler's capabilities, and Saddam's. No comparison.

Look, I'm going to go on the record here, and predict there's not going to be any Iraqi invasion. The world's completely against it, and Bush is too much of an internationalist to go it alone. There are far more important reasons why it should not happen, but those are the actual reasons why it won't.

[jwalsh07]

The men in question haven't been charged, convicted and sentenced, so no pardon is possible. The skin of Constitutional protections is thin and easily broken, and, once broken is more easily rebroken, until it's fragile and no protection at all.

The men in question are traitors. Congress has authorized POTUS to conduct war on the terrorists responsible for the attacks on our fellow citizens. This gives the POTUS the authority to order the deaths of combatants on the battlefield wherever that battlefield may happen.

The President has designated Hamdi and Padilla as combatants. The law of the land is that he has every right to do so, Ex Parte Quirin. So far, three federal judges have upheld this precedent. Quirin is quite explicit on the fact that being a "citizen" does not trump being an enemy comabatant.

If they are entitled to the full protection of the Constitution as you seem to think then Hamdi, not having been Mirandized on the battle field, is free to walk even though he was trying to kill Americans. Doesn't make any sense at all.

[donozark]

Yes, in fact I do. Doubt if I need a lecture from people unwilling to understand what is going on. This topic has been discussed many times here. Apparently you haven't read any of the previous posts.

The use of the term "enemy combatants" is not of AG Ashcroft's invention. WW2 resulted in some individuals being labelled as such. As far as "camps?" They already exist, Quantico comes to mind. There are others. These types of offenders need to be isolated from the prison population in general. For their own protection as well as intel value.

As I have explained at least a DOZEN times on this board, Padilla HAS a lawyer. He WILL get a trial. Even if a military tribunal it will still be fair. Ever been in one? I have. The idea that he will simply be taken to Leavenworth USP and dropped down an elevator shaft with a rope arounbd his neck is laughable.

You are as wrong about this case as you were about the outcome of our war in Afghanistan. Hurts to be wrong all the time, now doesn't it? As to your childish little digs? I am ex-military, as well as LEO. The idea that I need a lecture from you or the other uninitiated idiots on this board is beyond funny. Grow up.

[rintense]

First of all, I want documented proof from the Ashcroft's office that these are his plans. If this is true, I can now see why so many fear Ashcroft. This is troublesome to me.