Andrew Sullivan: Memo to Europe- Grow up on Iraq

andrewsullivan.com ^ | 08/12/2002 | Andrew Sullivan

[denydenydeny]

I see nothing inherently inconsistent with Communism and Christianity. Communism, at least as an socialist economic system, is morally neutral, just as is capitalism; of course, I consider it a pathetic and ineffective economic system but not inherently evil. It's only when totalitarianism is imposed (and I grant you that it does invariably happen) that Communism thus becomes inherently inconsistent with Christianity.

I don't get your point here. If it "invariably happens" that Communist governments are totalitarian, how are they not inherently evil?

It sounds like you're saying that murder is okay except when there's killing involved.

[Phillip Augustus]

You are probably right, at least as far as pure Communism is concerned. What I really was talking about was socialist economic theory, not USSR style Communism, which probably does require totaliarianism as an integral ingredient. But, actually, there are many socialist style governments that are not truly totalitarian in the sense that the term is usually understood. Sweden is still fundamentally a decent and free country, though with a socialist economy- which is still too "totalitarian" for my tastes, but not what I would call "evil".

[rmlew]

I don't disagree with your observations, and would note that my post would not have occured in the first place but for Cacique's unfair attack against Europeans. I don't consider it fair to judge people of Jewish ethnicity or religion based on what other people of Jewish ethnicity in the past have or have not done; but when stones start getting tossed at Europeans, it's tempting to start looking to see if I find a glass house, hence comments about the Frankfurt School. I find it no more immoral or inappropriate for me to do that than it is for the neo-cons to spew the "euro-trash" venom. Still, it's unfair to people like you who I would not want to offend, so I will try to refrain from it in the future.

1. Cacique was certainly unfair.
2. In your promise not to generalise, you actually do so by saying "the neo-cons."
3. Give me any article by a pundit and I'm sure I can find an over-generalization.

the way, it is not for me to judge whether a communist can or can't be a Jew, since I am not very familiar with the Jewish faith, but I see nothing inherently inconsistent with Communism and Christianity. Communism, at least as an socialist economic system, is morally neutral, just as is capitalism; of course, I consider it a pathetic and ineffective economic system but not inherently evil. It's only when totalitarianism is imposed (and I grant you that it does invariably happen) that Communism thus becomes inherently inconsistent with Christianity.

You are confusing socialism and Communism. One clearly can believe in a socialist economy and still be a Christian or Jew. There have been sects of both which were very egalitarian and which had real revenue sharing.
Communism/Scientific Socialism/Marxism... is essesntially a atheistic religion, which seeks to trancend theistic religions and create a utopia.

[Catspaw]

What in he!! are you doing posting from the World Church of the Creator? Is that slimy neo-Nazi Matthew Hale one of your heros?