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Andrew Sullivan: Memo to Europe- Grow up on Iraq
andrewsullivan.com ^ | 08/12/2002 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 08/12/2002 12:47:34 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: Torie
Here is Europe's problem in a nutshell. They can no longer afford to maintain a serious military presence because of their social policies. That's it in a nutshell. They don't have the cash to do what is right and proper. Everything else is mist.

Britain is excepted with the caveat that they are headed down the same road. We have provided their security for over a half century and they got 2 months on holiday. Unemployment in Germany is reaching new heights. If you have any friends over there you might want to douse them with cold water, it's time to wake up.

41 posted on 08/12/2002 8:12:30 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Cacique
I'll be damned. Someone with a lower opinion of the eurotrash than mine!
Sail on, bro!
42 posted on 08/12/2002 8:18:19 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: jwalsh07
No, Europe just relies on the US to pay the defense bills. It is sort of a free lunch kind of thing, just like with prescription drugs. One can hardly blame them for sucking at a rather cost free tit. Europe in any event is plenty rich enough to spend a percent or two of GDP more on defense, even with a welfare state, if it needed to. Britain by the way spends half of what we do as a percentage of GDP on health care. Which is the main reason why their health care systems sucks (for those who think they deserve cutting edge medical for everything no matter whether they can pay for it or not) when all is said and done. JMO.
44 posted on 08/12/2002 8:20:50 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Pokey78
Thank you for posting this excellent article. I read it closely as it deserves.

Noted above is the distinct likelihood that the greatest European opposition to American resolve vis a vis Iraq/Saddam is in its government/media elite, steeped in socialism/globalism, ignorant of the texture of the facts on the ground.

We here are shedding our media like so much snakeskin, empty and useless, as the sinewy strength evolves.

Sullivan has laid out in dense clarity the perception of European condescension by Americans with sleeves rolled up.

It's clear that all would not be swell had not U.S. and Russian armies driven to the very block above Hitler's bunker--as they must do in Baghdad.

It's not for nothing that Bush labelled Iran, Iraq and North Korea the Axis of Evil, as they flank the Anus of Evil: China.

China is currently aiding Al Qaeda in Pakistan as it did in Afghanistan, as it provided Saddam with fiber optic links for his air defense, and (through its deniable sock puppet North Korea) the various Scud derivatives of Taipodong-types, themselves derived from Chinese No Dong technology--and all, of course, improved by traitor-rapist42 and his donors Schwartz/Armstrong Loral/Hughes.

The French sip wine as the Israeli Embassy in Paris is destroyed by fire, having denied us airspace to hit Kadafi.

Should Al Qaeda fly hijacked aircraft into their Eiffel Tower, would they not simply headline it, "Le Eiffel hit--Where was Israel?"

Oui.

45 posted on 08/12/2002 8:28:51 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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To: Torie
No, Europe just relies on the US to pay the defense bills

No. Europe has decimated their military despite the largesse of America. They have neither the will nor the means to help in any significant way. They can't even vote to limit unemployment for philanderers for pete's sake. They are currently hopeless and helpless.

It can change but not in my lifetime.

JMHO, of course. :-}

46 posted on 08/12/2002 8:29:14 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
They can't even vote to limit unemployment for philanderers for pete's sake

? Just curious. :) Are they cracking down on prostitution or something?

47 posted on 08/12/2002 8:36:43 PM PDT by Torie
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: Frumious Bandersnatch
I wonder what the French would do if the Eiffel tower had a plane rammed into it

They'd try to figure out who to surrender to.
49 posted on 08/12/2002 8:42:54 PM PDT by jwh_Denver
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To: edmund929
The list is garbage as is the racist website. But we know now where you are coming from, and it ain't pretty.
50 posted on 08/13/2002 3:01:01 AM PDT by KeyWest
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78
Sullivan presents more neo-conserative nonsense. By the way, I nearly hit the floor laughing at his ludicrous comments about the "genocide" occuring in the Balkans. Is Sullivan yet ANOTHER neo-con who hates Mohammedean aggression in the Middle East, but loves it in the Balkans when it threatens European Christians?
52 posted on 08/13/2002 10:28:44 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: edmund929
To say nothing of the Frankfurt School, which of course, is the philosophical point of origin for Political Correctness, Multicultaralism, and the cultural demonization of Western Civilization. I guess we should blame the evil Europeans for that as well, since Frankfurt is geographically located in Europe.
53 posted on 08/13/2002 10:35:42 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: Black Agnes
"Blame the US for making the terrorists mad and supporting Israel. (see, that was easy :)) "

I just spit beer on my monitor :)

54 posted on 08/13/2002 10:41:37 PM PDT by Crossbow Eel
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To: Torie
It is the latter on which the case rest to take Saddam out. And on that Tony Blair is quite splendid. That is what he focuses on (I just heard him this last Sunday on C-SPAN), and he and Britain will be with us not matter how much heat in generates for Blair internally. The guy has guts. I am a big fan of Blair, and would have voted for him in the last election, and probably the next, if I were eligible, and of course I'm not. He is a very impressive guy.

I would vote for Tony Blair, even though he's a statist. He is impressive in that he always help the Americans, and recongize the threat that Islam has on the West.

Probably the most significant thing is that he's not an Euroweenie.

55 posted on 08/13/2002 11:42:47 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
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To: edmund929
Americans, democracy means majority rule, but with equal rights for minorities. In Israel and the occupied territories, equal rights for the minority are simply out of the question.

Arabs, Druze, Samaritan, and European Christian citizens of Israel have equal rights to Jews. Israel, to the detriment of its survival, is far more "Democratic" than the US was in 1850.

Majority rule itself has taken a peculiar form in Israel. The original Arab majority was driven out of their homes and their native land, and kept out.

1. The Arabs invaded in 640CE, when there were still almost as many Jews as Byzantine colonists. The Arabs aren't origional anything to the land. That is quite different from Jews who have had a continuous presence in the land for all but 60 of the last 3200+ years.

2. The Arabs of the Mandate of Palestine included two groups, the 1/3 whose families were they before 1890, and the 2/3 who came to land that Jews developed and then tried to take it.
3. Aside from 2 incidents over battelfields, there is no actual evidence that Jews expelled Arabs. In fact the Jews in 1947-48 made hundreds of declarations asking for peace and for the Arabs to stay. Those who left did so at the behest of the Arab armies so that these could exterminate the Jews. Teh 750,000 "refugees" chose to try to facilitate genocide to take land that they did not own. (Yes Jews did own property in the British mandate).
4. There is alot of instances of Arabs expelling Jews. After 1923, the 2/3 of Palestine, the Kingdom of Transjordan, given to teh Arabs was cleanesed of Jews.
In 1929, the Arabs murdered dozens and expelled the 3000 year old Jewish community in Hebron.
All Jews were expelled from the land (Trans)Jordan and Egypt conquered in 1948. Jewish property was stolen or destroyed. This included the Jewish quarter of old Jerusalem.
About 700,000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries from 1947. These Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews now form a majority of the population of Israel.

Not only the first immigrants from Eastern Europe, but every Jew on earth was granted a "right of return" -- that is, "return" to a "homeland" most have never lived in, and in which none of their ancestors has ever lived.
The world-wide diaspora of Israelites have no ancestors from Israel? The Jews are not from Judea?

Thank you for proving yourself a liar. I'm quite certain that your response will also show your anti-Semetism.

In recent years Israel has been augmenting its Jewish majority by vigorously encouraging Jewish immigration, especially from Russia. Ariel Sharon has told a group of American senators that Israel needs a million more Jewish immigrants.

Israelites moving to Israel; that prove's Israel's nefariousness?

Israel rejects demands for a "right of return" for Palestinians exiled since 1948. Its reason? This would mean "the end of the Jewish state." An Arab majority would surely vote down Jewish ethnic privileges. If Israel remained democratic, it wouldn't long remain Jewish. It must be the only "democracy" whose existence depends on inequality.

If 3 million Arabs were to move to Israel, most of whose families where immigrant labor in the land in 1946, that would evntually destroy the country. The same is true if 200 million Chinese immigrated to Russia.

Do you oppose the concept of national identity, or do you believe that anyone, no matter how imagined, can make the claim, just not Jews in Israel?

56 posted on 08/14/2002 5:40:52 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: edmund929
Thank you for openly quoting a buch of Christian Identity folks and Neo-nazis. The source of your anti-Zionism is now abundantly clear.
57 posted on 08/14/2002 5:42:51 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: Phillip Augustus
To say nothing of the Frankfurt School, which of course, is the philosophical point of origin for Political Correctness, Multicultaralism, and the cultural demonization of Western Civilization. I guess we should blame the evil Europeans for that as well, since Frankfurt is geographically located in Europe.

Wake up Philip. (I hope you can still be saved.)
A communist cannot be a Jew anumore than he acan be a Christian. Communists are at war with Jews tthe same way they are with Christians. Why do you think the International left is trying to destroy both Israel and recreate America?

58 posted on 08/14/2002 5:46:19 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: edmund929
Some amendations to your little list:

V.I. Lenin, supreme dictator.[Lenin was not a Jew, except in the fevered imaginations of Nazis like the compiler of this list.]

Isaac Babel: officer, Soviet Secret Police. [Babel was certainly a Jew, but he was not in the Cheka. He was murdered by it. At least half of the Soviet Jews on your little list were actually murdered by the Communist regime under Stalin.]

Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee (JAC): new form of the Bolshevik YEVKOM, Stalin's recruiting conduit for funding money, supplies and political influence for Soviet Russia from world Jewry as well as the dissemination of gas chamber atrocity propaganda (cf. The Black Book). [What a surprise, Holocaust denial. Who'd a thunk it? If anything, the Soviet government actively supressed the Jewish nature of the Holocaust.]

Nikolai Bukharin [Bzzzt! Not a Jew.]

59 posted on 08/14/2002 6:43:25 PM PDT by denydenydeny
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To: rmlew; Cacique; edmund929
I don't disagree with your observations, and would note that my post would not have occured in the first place but for Cacique's unfair attack against Europeans. I don't consider it fair to judge people of Jewish ethnicity or religion based on what other people of Jewish ethnicity in the past have or have not done; but when stones start getting tossed at Europeans, it's tempting to start looking to see if I find a glass house, hence comments about the Frankfurt School. I find it no more immoral or inappropriate for me to do that than it is for the neo-cons to spew the "euro-trash" venom. Still, it's unfair to people like you who I would not want to offend, so I will try to refrain from it in the future.

By the way, it is not for me to judge whether a communist can or can't be a Jew, since I am not very familiar with the Jewish faith, but I see nothing inherently inconsistent with Communism and Christianity. Communism, at least as an socialist economic system, is morally neutral, just as is capitalism; of course, I consider it a pathetic and ineffective economic system but not inherently evil. It's only when totalitarianism is imposed (and I grant you that it does invariably happen) that Communism thus becomes inherently inconsistent with Christianity.

60 posted on 08/14/2002 7:41:19 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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