Massillon officer, suspect killed in chase, shootout

The Canton Repository (OHIO) ^ | Saturday, August 10, 2002 | LORI MONSEWICZ and ROBERT WANG Repository staff writers

[billva]

Of course no one handles every situation correctly. But anyone getting out of their firing at a policeman over a traffic stop has severe problems. There are ways to handle a situation without violence.

I took a traffic ticket to court because I felt the officer was wrong and won. Using a gun was never an option.

[Timesink]

Well, since you asked, this individual that killed the police officer was pulled over for a moving violation, approximately doing 72 in a 65 mph zone, and not wearing a seat belt. This is what the other article stated.

I happed to live extremely close to the Ohio border; I can see it from my house. And everyone that's ever grown up here was warned about Ohio even before they got their first learners' permit. The Ohio Highway Patrol is extremely anal about all traffic laws, and will stop you on anything they can get you on, in order to give you an amazingly expensive ticket. Driving 1mph over the speed limit will cost you a hundred bucks. That price jumps far higher for every few extra mph over you're going. (By contrast, our state police have an unwritten but commonly-known rule that they won't stop anyone at all unless they're going at least 10mph over the posted limit, and since most of our highways and interstates are posted 70mph, that means you can go 80 before they'll even blink an eye. In fact, they rarely have more than one or two cars looking for speeders in any given 40-50 mile radius, except during major holidays where the chance of drunk drivers or stupid teenagers are far more likely to be on the roads.) And they love picking on people with out-of-state plates; if you don't have Ohio tags, your chances of being let off with only a warning are approximately zero. It's all about the Benjamins.

[dirtboy]

-- Your protest that he is 'not a freeper' only encourages nutcakes like CJ to spout their hysterical hype and make the situation look even more ridiculous.

Guess what, tpaine? CJ is right on this one. State and local traffic laws, as long as there are conducted with probable cause as the basis for a stop, are not a Constitutional issue, but are the realm of states and municipalities under the 10th Amendment. Doing 72 in a 60 is probable cause. Waco and Ruby Ridge are sound positions to decry the actions of the federal government. This, however, is NOT a position to do such. Barring other information, the guy was dead wrong here. If he wants to die for his cause, that his his business. But killing a cop for his warped perception of the cause, that is just plain immoral, wrong and insane.

[Eaker]

One poster declared that a mere traffic stop is a constitutional crisis

The post said that it was NOT a constitutional crisis.

Then you hadn't read the posts very carefully

Pot meet kettle!!!

Stay safe; stay armed.

[Cultural Jihad]

... nutcakes ...

Wrong. It was one of your fellow libertarians who declared traffic stops a "Constitutional crisis."

[Friedrich Hayek]

I shot a Makarov 9mm at the range awhile back when I was shooting a bunch of pistols(I ended up getting a Rock Island 1911 .45). It was alright, but I like the 1911's better.

Ummm, fellas? This might not be the best thread to discuss the relative merits of Czech handguns.

[Cultural Jihad]

The post said that it was NOT a constitutional crisis.

Wrong, Eaker. Read the deleted post #55.

[Timesink]

Then you hadn't read the posts very carefully. One poster declared that a mere traffic stop is a constitutional crisis. Others were speculating on some conspiracy to murder the driver because he was a nuisance to local governments.

Well, I admit that I was in the middle of composing a rather long reply when the thread was pulled (I HATE when that happens!), so I might have missed the last X number of posts in the process. It seemed to be getting a lot of responses very quickly.

[Dane]

Then you hadn't read the posts very carefully. One poster declared that a mere traffic stop is a constitutional crisis. Others were speculating on some conspiracy to murder the driver because he was a nuisance to local governments

That was Demidog(super Libertarian). I was the one who said to Betty Boop(the one who originally started the generally symapthetic thread about the guy who killed the cop) that a traffic stop was not a constitutional crisis and that I had no sympathy for the perp.

Demi then decided to chime in with some inane Libertarian idealogy about how the right to travel "unmolested" has been in common law for centuries.

JMO, but the thread was pulled because the powers that be did not want to be embarassed by Demidog's rantings.

[Larry Lucido]

Ping

[Kevin Curry]

Ditto. My next contribution hangs in the balance with this thread.

So, your pathetic contribution to FR depends on whether they will allow you to roll around in the blood of a dead police officer?

If I owned the site, I'd put your grimy six bits back in your chubby little fist and give you the bum's rush out the door.

[sinkspur]

Driving 1mph over the speed limit will cost you a hundred bucks.

This one sentence blows your credibility to hell. I was in Ohio two weeks ago, driving ten miles over the speed limit, and was PASSED by Ohio state troopers.

[FITZ]

But anyone getting out of their firing at a policeman over a traffic stop has severe problems. There are ways to handle a situation without violence.

Obviously. And there are posts made by people that seem sometimes to advocate violence that are probably just them letting off steam that could be read by some who are closer to being off the edge as advocating that. I'm sure this could have been handled differently by either side and there could have been a better outcome. Adrenaline gets flowing though on both sides, too bad a cooling-off time couldn't have been given this man by the police.

[Cultural Jihad]

... too bad a cooling-off time couldn't have been given this man by the police.

Too bad life ain't just some game, eh?

[FITZ]

Demi then decided to chime in with some inane Libertarian idealogy about how the right to travel "unmolested" has been in common law for centuries.

Still we can wonder and ask ourselves how the Founding Fathers would have preferred this to be handled.

[Dane]

The post said that it was NOT a constitutional crisis.

Uh Demidog decided to chime in basically saying that a minor traffic stop is a constitutional crisis to him(super Libertarian).

[tpaine]

Timesink:
There wasn't, not a single post. The closest anyone had come to anything that could even be slightly construed as a possible "cop killing might be okay" message were the people that said they were sorry to see both the nut and the officer dead.

Then you hadn't read the posts very carefully. One poster declared that a mere traffic stop is a constitutional crisis. Others were speculating on some conspiracy to murder the driver because he was a nuisance to local governments.
69 po - CJ
_________________________________

And now, because the thread was pulled, we will never know which version is true, will we?
-- Personally, having vast experience with your 'visions', I think most here will see it the Timesink way.