Marines Set Sights On New Basic Rifle

San Diego Union-Tribune | August 8, 2002 | Otto Kreisher

[Travis McGee]

I'd love it if the Gi-renes just up and put an order in for 50,000 AR-10s in .243, which Armalite already makes. Flat top, rail system, good to go.

The USMC is feeling pretty good these days, what with being the "first to fight" everywhere while the Army is finding its pants and boots. The USMC is even switching to a Marine Only high tech anti NVG cammie pattern and new uniform with slanted pockets, pouches for knee and elbow pads and other tricks. IOW the USMC ain't taking the Army's leftovers any more.

So why not go to the .243 AR-10?

Keep M-4s around for specops CQB, tank crews etc.

[Travis McGee]

.243 takes the best from .223 (mucho ammo for weight) and the best from .308 (hits hard, long range).

IMHO.

[Travis McGee]

Early AR-10s had some funky design features like the charging handle vertical under the handle. Now AR-10s work and look like AR-15s.

[BlessingInDisguise]

Thank you, what would we do without you oh thread watcher..?

[BlessingInDisguise]

You're right 100%!! Although I wouldn't want to get shot with a .223 it sure isn't a long range weapon or something that I would want to use in combat. If they would start issueing .243 autos to our combat servicemen that would give them MUCH better firepower. Most American men nowadays are at least 5' 9" to 5' 10" and 170lbs. so it would be easily controllable for them under stressful conditions. I heard this bs about the 3 shot burst crap their putting on the M4A1 and that just pisses me off.

[Double Tap]

The TCU cartridges are base off of the .223 Remington case. I never had problems with extraction as far as the TC extractors went, but with the hotter loads, it was hard to get it to break over. The extractor always pulled it out though.

[Double Tap]

Loaded 308 Winchester cartridge with 150gr. bullet is 350gr.

Loaded 243 Winchester cartridge with 100gr. bullet is 310gr.

Loaded 5.56 (.223 Rem.) cartridge with 55 gr. bullet is 180gr.

So you don't get the weight advantage with the 243 that you would with the 223. You will not be able to carry any more rounds of 243 than 308 because they are the same head size so the same number of rounds of either cartridge will fit in a given magazine.

If I'm going to have to carry the approximate same weight of ammo, and the same number of rounds, then I will choose the ammo that has more retained energy downrange and more frontal area to disipate that energy.

That would be the 308.

[Travis McGee]

Good point. That ain't much of a weight saving.

[Travis McGee]

How do they get that much velocity out of a blown to 6mm 100grain bullet in a .223 case? That sounds ideal now that I compare it to the too-big .243.

[medved]

Oh, and while they're at it, change the caliber to .243.

Amen.

[Shooter 2.5]

I think the .243 would be better because of the recoil and not the weight. I suppose they could just issue .308 AR-10's with the .223 M-16's. Especially since our troops are out of the jungle now. I never did understand why we had to have only one weapon for our services. Let a LRRP patrol in the jungle with .223's and then let our guys patrol in the desert riding in a vehicle with .308's. The AR system is great and it works.
I remember a phrase that someone said to me years ago: A firearm is just a launching platform for a bullet.

[Shooter 2.5]

Armalite reissued the AR-10B for the people who like the charging handle under the sights. I don't know if they still have any left. They did that about the same time that they had a advertising gimmick that gave away a toaster, of all things, with one of their rifles.

When the assault weapons Bill went before Congress, the anti's used a book that had silhouettes of rifles and I remember seeing that hook for the charging handle under the sights. I thought that it was a smear in the printing process. I never understood why they would slice the top of the receiver open like that.

I thought it would weaken the support for the metal. Then I noticed a couple of days ago, that the French bullpup, FAMAS, had the same thing.

[Travis McGee]

The west coast seals never did get rid of their M-14s. They have a middle east AOR and desert training areas so it makes sense. Of course they also have M-4s, MP-5s etc.

[Travis McGee]

The top cocker never made sense to me. Any AR's charging handle belongs in the back, so that everyone can retain the same muscle memory, and of course for installing sights.

[Shooter 2.5]

A couple of days ago, someone on FR told me that the Navy was at Camp Perry with M-14's. I think he was trying to tell me that the M-14 was so good that the rifles were competing "as issued". I tried to tell him that a team won't show up to Camp Perry with rack grades.
Camp Perry screwed up the orders to the CMP again. Now my '03A3 will take 120 days to get to me. The lady also said they were out of that model and that after all this time, I won't get it. She told me to call back in two weeks. I had to treat the lady as nice as I could before she took my order and placed it in the circular file.
I don't know what came first, the charging handle in the back or top. I would guess it was originally at the top and then moved.

[Travis McGee]

I wouldn't be surprised if the seals competed with issued rifles. Seals do not touch 'rack grade'! They get the best worked over stuff issued to them, one to a man, and they baby them. When barrels are shot, they get new. Full time armorers on the premises kind of thing. (It used to be nice to get truckloads of factory fresh ammo, and sniper grade by the crate.)

I'm pretty sure the original AR-10s were top cockers.

I didn't know they still had 03's.

[Shooter 2.5]

"I didn't know they still had 03's.

They're going so fast that I don't think I'll even get a chance to reorder for something else. I think they're completely out of the Smith Corona's and the Rock Island's. In two weeks, I might as well tell them to send my money back. I hope they collected enough interest on my money. At least I can say that I support the program that way.

www.odcmp.com

[Travis McGee]

LOL. Let us know how it comes out.

[MileHi]

What are the hoops to buy through CMP? A guy I know went through the shooting and all and claimed he was turned down because of a DUI when he was 17 which they called a "derogatory" on his record.

Can you get M-14s through them ?

[Shooter 2.5]

No M-14's are available.
If you're old enough to have trained with a Garand, which is 60 or older, you don't have to compete. The program was set up so that people would be introduced to High Power Rifle competitions.
The requirements are:
Shoot one match of High power rifle or a Garand Seminar.
Be a member of your CMP recognized state association or gun club.
U.S. citizen
18 years or older
Be eligible to own a firearm
www.odcmp.com