Judge orders names of all detainees in 9/11 probe released

MSNBC ^

[exodus]

“…Admitting that you’ve arrested someone doesn’t hurt anything. Trying to keep the arrest secret doesn’t help any investigation. “Night and Fog” tactics does nothing except promote fear of the government.”
125 by exodus

To: exodus
"“Night and Fog” tactics does nothing except promote fear of the government. " Exactly. And we need to put that fear into the interlopers in this country who would do us harm.
# 137 by swarthyguy
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“Interlopers who would do us harm” already fear our government. Where they come from, they expect secret trials, if they even get a trial before their execution. They’re not surprised that we don’t follow our laws.

I was talking about the fear our citizen’s have of our government’s tyrannical actions. We expect more from our government. We expect the rule of law to be honored.

Yes, even I expect more from our government. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t risk putting my thoughts out in public.

[swarthyguy]

>"Secret" doesn't mean "only lawyers know."

Yes it does. The lawyers know but they can't tell anyone.
If they tell the families, then it's just like making it public. Which, if those are the groundrules, means all your arguments are null and void.

The purpose is to keep the investigation unimpeded by a bunch of naive, gullible idiots who think we're dealing with some of religion, rather than a ideology bent on world wide domination and willing to commit genocides all around the world to achieve its goal.

[swarthyguy]

>I wouldn’t risk putting my thoughts out in public

LOL! Surfed the web lately? what sites have you seen pulled? Barely a few jihadi ones and that's due to private pressure more than government presssure.

[exodus]

To: exodus
Why you so concerned about (terrorists) anyway?
# 220 by swarthyguy

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Why do you support government hit squads, swarthyguy?
You know better. You read what I said, and you’re not stupid.

I’ll be more explicit. I want to find, arrest, try, and execute every terrorist in our nation. Outside of our nation, I want a Declaration of War against every State that supports terrorism.

Terrorism itself isn’t an “Act of War.” Terrorists are criminals, not soldiers. However, a foreign government giving support of terror against our nation is an Act of War, and must not be ignored.

Here’s the catch, swarthyguy. I want it done legally.

Any criminal committing terrorism should be arrested legally, according to the Constitution. Any nation we attack should first have a Declaration of War declared against it by Congress, just as the Constitution provides for.

[swarthyguy]

>Why do you support government hit squads,

What hit squads?

>Terrorists are criminals, not soldiers.

NOOO, combatants! May or may not be explicitly state supported.

>a foreign government giving support of terror against our nation is an Act of War, and must not be ignored.

Clean out Saudi, Pakistan for starters.

>should be arrested legally.

It's all legal now, the Patriot Act made it so.

>Terrorism itself isn’t an “Act of War.” Terrorists are criminals,

Wrong, wrong, killing 3000+ is not merely a criminal 'act'. Because we treated the first group of mass murderers as criminals that the judge who presided over the first WTC Attack Trial is still guarded round the clock. Not to mention those with the guts to speak out against radical islamists. This is war against the islamist nutcases.

Read the post about what Rumsfeld has got up his sleeve in today's Washington Times.

Best news we've had in a long time. While you guys are worried about these characters, we're really unleashing our Special Operations guys. And with the way the information is clamped down, it's too bad, but i doubt we'll be hearing too much about these operations, except for the widely exaggerated fantasies in the Pakistani, Saudi and other jihadi outlets.

[wattsmag2]

The Senator she worked for was New Jersey Sen. Harrison A. Williams Jr. whose political career ended after he was charged in the Abscam sting. In the FBI corruption investigation, begun in 1978, agents posed as Arab sheiks or their representatives and offered bribes to members of Congress.

Williams was indicted in 1980 and convicted in 1981 on nine counts of bribery and conspiracy for promising to use his office to further a business venture in which he had a hidden interest. He resigned rather than be expelled.

She also worked for U.S. Rep. Jonathan Bingham (D-NY, a more liberal Congresscritter you'll never find.

[Satadru]

Sorry I didn't read the article. It seems to be the case that Cuba is not part of the US, and hence our laws are not applicable to the prisoners there. However, I do believe that due process applies to persons, and as such the govt should charge the prisoners for something. I think that the govt may not have a good case for most of the detainees and that is why they do not want to charge them with anything. I fear that most of them are probably immigration violations, for which they should be deported.

[Catspaw]

This isn't a Sixth Amendment case. It's a First Amendment case. Please show me where in the decision that the judge cites the Sixth Amendment.

[jwalsh07]

If the arrestee has a lawyer, it's only because the government chose to allow it.

Yeah right, and all the leftist lawyers are in cahoots with Ashcroft keeping it all a "secret" from everybody else. You disregard the facts because otherwise you'd have to emerge from your basement after thirty years. Come on up, the weathers fine.

[JohnathanRGalt]

She may be on other things, she is right on this one. It is an outrage for people to be put in jail and kept for months with no charges being filed and no access to lawyers or family.

carenot, I agree with you and I am opposed to the majority opinion of this thread.

The U.S. has used the Sept.11th atrocity as an excuse to set up a police state.

Don't you think Al-Qaeda knows exactly which of it's assets is now under custody? What about all the others that aren't Al-Qaeda? -- Joe-Mohammed running his falafel stand gets picked up and put away for months without trial.

Americans have had that same thing happen to them in dictatorships (Islamic or otherwise) around the world. I don't think they thought it was just either.

Even Israel, when it captures terrorists, gives them a fair and open trial.

The judge is right on this one.

[FreeTheHostages]

WAIT!! Now I remember, shoot, hope it's not too late for you all to note, one of Judge Kessler's real doozies:

United States Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit. Dee FARMER, Appellee, v. Kenneth MORITSUGU, Appellant. No. 98-5087. Argued Nov. 19, 1998. Decided Dec. 18, 1998.

Check this one out: a transsexual prisoner sued Bureau of Prisons (BOP) and various officials, alleging deliberate indifference to prisoner's serious medical needs. That is, he wanted the lopping-off surgery and they wouldn't give it to him. The medical director of the BOP moved for summary judgment based on qualified immunity, saying hey look he can't sue me personally. The United States District Court for the District of Columbia, Gladys Kessler, J., > 991 F.Supp. 19, denied motion, and said the director would have to actually go through discovery and trial as the head of medicine for the whole federal prison system because this one prisoner couldn't get his wah-hoo lopped off. Needless to say, her theory that the prisoner had a "clearly established constitutional right" so such surgery was reversed by the Court.

Decision available at: 163 F.3d 610

[Grut]

How many troops does the Court have?

None. How many lawyers does the executive branch have if the courts decide not to recognize them? How long can the executive branch function if it can't take people to court?

[JohnathanRGalt]

LOL! Surfed the web lately? what sites have you seen pulled? Barely a few jihadi ones and that's due to private pressure more than government presssure.

Yes, private pressure. I've personally been involved with TOS'ing Azzam.com as well as the English site of HAMAS: http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/index_e.htm We sent HAMAS packing from North Carolina -> Sweden -> England -> 'dev NULL' (on Thurs, still down today). Keep clicking on the link and when it pops up again let's Freep the ISP taking terrorist money.

Actually, the government seems to actually support the terrorists web sites. The main portal of HAMAS at http://www.palestine-info.cc/ is at Burst.net and the government is keeping it up. I'll have more news on this monday.

[swarthyguy]

Watch out for some of these sites, i got all personal data erased from my NT machine. Emails, docs, etc and came up with a brand new system. I clicked on one of these sites and *PooF* next time i booted up.....no data or settings left.....

Wasn't email becuase i had not checked email for a while.

[JohnathanRGalt]

Watch out for some of these sites, i got all personal data erased from my NT machine. Emails, docs, etc ...

I've had my system go down serious too about a month ago. Don't know if the Islamists were at fault -- but I am constantly under attack with mail bombs and people trying to crack my fire-wall. Yes, they can hack you even if you just click into their site - you don't even need to open an attachment.

I agree they certainly have the capability to bring your system down. I've also found what appears to be a major ring of Islamist cyberterrorists. Would you like to help me investigate them or do you know of any ANTI-Islamist hackers that could help me to understand what's going on there? (Contact me if you'd like the URL).

However, it could be that it was just Microsoft doing what it likes to do best -- the blue screen -- yes, even on NT or Win2000. I've heard Linux might be more secure (but let's not start that thread here - we're already a long way from the Judge who ordered the names released).

[INSENSITIVE GUY]

Scr*w this judge and scr*w the court.15 days or else.Or else what?If the administration doesn't comply,just what does this"no absolutely nothing about the law"judge intend to do about it?

[Looking for Diogenes]

Suppose there are 100 material witnesses and 90 of them are in custody. What do you suppose the other ten might be doing?

What's the relevance? The families and associates of the '90 ' witnesses obviously know they are in custody. How does letting the rest of us know affect the future of the case, including tracking down the other supposed 10? Remever that the jusdge has allowed the government to keeps secret the time and place of their arrest, because that information could potentially affect the investigation.

And if the government can show that there is a specific reason for keeping a name secret, that name will not be released.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Gladys Kessler, J., > 991 F.Supp. 19, denied motion, and said the director would have to actually go through discovery and trial as the head of medicine for the whole federal prison system because this one prisoner couldn't get his wah-hoo lopped off. Needless to say, her theory that the prisoner had a "clearly established constitutional right" so such surgery was reversed by the Court.

This looks like material for a new thread, FTH. Shaming them is one of the few weapons we have left, given their vast majorities in the courts, universities and the press. (Wouldn't Rush have fun with this case, lol!).

[Demidog]

We are in a war. Sh!t happens in war.

Please cite the relevant portion of the Constitution which says that the law can be ignored in times of war.

[Demidog]

We don't want Al Qaeda to know who of their people we've got and who we don't.

And you think they don't know already? LOL.

The administration has been making this argument and it's quite obviously valid to anyone other than a total lefty, I would have thought.

Really? So wanting this government to abide by its constitution makes one a "total lefty?"

Color me a "total lefty" I suppose.