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A bone to pick: Missing link is evolutionists' weakest
Houston Chronical via WorldNetDaily ^ | July 26 | Jeff Farmer

Posted on 07/29/2002 6:35:04 PM PDT by Tribune7

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To: Junior
I found this info, but I don't know how reliable it is:
Among the most common faith groups in the U.S., Protestants have the highest suicide rate; Roman Catholics are next; Jews have the lowest rate.

Followers of religions that strongly prohibit suicide, like Christianity and Islam, have a higher suicide rate than those religions which have no strong prohibition (e.g. Buddhism and Hinduism.)

Source: Some facts about suicide. (You have to scroll down when you get there and click on "Suicide".)
1,021 posted on 08/09/2002 8:02:42 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: Junior
As humans are a cooperative bunch by nature,

We invariably put self interest over cooperation.

1,022 posted on 08/09/2002 8:16:30 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Gumlegs
LOL
1,023 posted on 08/09/2002 8:18:08 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
We invariably put self interest over cooperation.

Not necessarily. Psychological studies show primates, including chimps and humans, are far more "successful" (become leaders, get more mating opportunities, get fed) when they cooperate with one-another. Animals (and by extension, people) who act in a selfish manner and refuse to cooperate with the rest of the group most often find themselves to be outcasts and end up far less successful. To make a long story short (too late), for me to get mine I have to make sure you get yours too.

1,024 posted on 08/09/2002 8:35:48 AM PDT by Junior
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To: gore3000
and adaptation for the worse:

The mutants are the only survivors in the lactose environment. Only an complete idiot would call this “adaptation for the worse”.

Further, the article did not show anywhere that there was any gene duplication.

The article never claimed any gene duplication occurred. Like everything else you write, you pulled that out of your posterior.

The specificities for the biologically selected substrates generally increased by at least an order of magnitude via increased Vmax and decreased Km for the substrate. These changes were very specific for the selected substrate, often being accompanied by decreased specificities for other related substrates.

The ebgA is a cryptic enzyme. There is nothing here saying the mutants did not survive just as well in the original conditions (It was probably never assayed since it is totally irrelevant to the study). The ebgA mutations were unquestionably favorable in that now they survive in the lactose only growth medium. There just isn’t any way to get around this fact.

1,025 posted on 08/09/2002 9:45:38 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: Junior
Not necessarily. Psychological studies show primates, including chimps and humans, are far more "successful" (become leaders, get more mating opportunities, get fed) when they cooperate with one-another.

Cooperation is good. It can lead to success. On the other hand, so can lying, stealing and murder.

Consider our last president. Consider the people who voted for him on the presumption he will get them things that they never earned.

You can argue they cooperated. Of course you can argue that conspiracy is cooperation, too.

My theology concerning human nature is fairly conservative. We are fallen and need a savior.

1,026 posted on 08/09/2002 9:46:32 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
On the other hand, so can lying, stealing and murder.

In the short run, maybe. In the long run you'll be shunned by the rest of the group, which can prove to be quite fatal for critters with the limited natural weaponry and protection enjoyed by humans.

1,027 posted on 08/09/2002 9:50:49 AM PDT by Junior
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To: gore3000
Garbage. Post it here so all can see your statement is not true.

I already provided the links several times.

These are from the Nature papers:

Mutations in homeotic (Hox) genes have long been suggested as potential causes of morphological evolution, and there is abundant evidence that some changes in Hox expression patterns correlate with transitions in animal axial pattern.

Our observations provide direct evidence that major morphological changes in arthropod body plans are associated with changes in Hox gene regulation.

Our results suggest that Ubx, and Hox genes in general, independently and selectively regulate genes that act at many levels of regulatory hierarchies to shape the differential development of serially homologous structures.

There’s lots more in the literature on HOX and evolution.

However, you need evidence for your statements

All the evidence points to biological redundancy. Check the mouse genetics database. Hundreds of individual gene deletions result in no detectable change, let alone a “disasterous” result.

perhaps over a thousand posts by now:

Does anyone else here think the possibility exists that Gore3000 is just a relentless creationist strawman?

HOW DO YOU CHANGE A PROGRAM BY RANDOM MEANS IN AN EVOLUTIONARY MANNER?????

Random mutations to the HOX gene cluster is one way (among many). I think you need to take a break your starting to lose it.

1,028 posted on 08/09/2002 9:51:27 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: Gumlegs
Another step towards the mantle.
1,029 posted on 08/09/2002 9:51:34 AM PDT by balrog666
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To: Tribune7; Junior
Christian and Jewish values are basically the same albeit the theology is obviously different.

This is a total aside, but in the context of this discussion it made me ponder…

Are there any Jewish YECs? I can’t think of a single Jewish person I know (even strict orthodox) who rejects science in favor of a literal interpretation of Genesis.

Is there an obvious explanation? Maybe Im just tired this morning.

1,030 posted on 08/09/2002 9:53:48 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: RightWingNilla
You know, that is a good question.

I think the basis for "young earth" theology is an interpretation of OT geneologies that became ingrained as dogma for a time in Western Europe.

A related question are there any YEC among the Orthodox?

1,031 posted on 08/09/2002 10:12:28 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
Here is a Jewish scientist who has worked in both physics and biology who sees the universe as both young and old, as I do Gerald Schroeder - Age of the Universe
1,032 posted on 08/09/2002 10:23:03 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thanks! A great link.
1,033 posted on 08/09/2002 10:37:57 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
You're quite welcome! I'm glad it was helpful to you!
1,034 posted on 08/09/2002 10:46:14 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: All
1720 placemarker.
1,035 posted on 08/09/2002 11:31:07 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: RightWingNilla; Tribune7
Are there any Jewish YECs?
YEC Orthodox?

I've sent your questions to a mailing list I run that contains a somewhat diverse group of Christians. I'll let you know what they say.

1,036 posted on 08/09/2002 11:35:22 AM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter
New font placemarker.
1,037 posted on 08/09/2002 11:47:34 AM PDT by Junior
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To: RightWingNilla
>>> Are there any Jewish YECs? <<<

This isn't a definitive answer to your question, but I recall reading that one of the reasons for Immanuel Velikovsky's "popularity" (such as it was) was that his flavor of catastrophism allegedly authenticated the Old Testament and helped rationalize Judaism. If that's true, then it seems likely at least some Velikovskians (sp?) would be Jewish YECs.

I looked for a web article talking about this, and this one's the closest thing I could find (it's Martin Gardner talking about Velikovsky, L. Ron Hubbard, Reich and others of a similar stripe):

http://www.xenu.net/archive/fifties/e501200.htm
1,038 posted on 08/09/2002 12:17:42 PM PDT by Iota
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To: Iota
Excellent link. Gardner's book "Fads and Fallicies" is still relevant after a half century.
1,039 posted on 08/09/2002 12:38:10 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Good News For The Day

‘I am the truth. . ..’(John 14:6)

For most of time, men and women have assumed that the truth was there to be found out. This began to change in the 19th century and the change gathered pace in the 20th. As people began to question the existence of God, it became obvious to some, that the existence of truth requires the existence of God. With God dismissed, it became impossible to conceive of truth in any absolute sense. This has resulted in the humiliation of truth. Truth is now whatever you would like it to be.

Truth's demise has filtered down through the great centers of learning, the arts, and on into streets and homes. Everything is possible with truth gone. Everything is permissible. Musicians make music that doesn't sound musical. Painters paint pictures that are incomprehensible to normal folk. Playwrights write plays that are nonsense, and architects design buildings that no one can understand. All this is put forward as legitimate, but what does it all mean?

No matter how much... popular culture---is encouraged to believe in the relativity of truth, no one can build a decent life on such a notion.

Inevitably proponents of freedom from God, and from absolute truth, are obliged to reach outside of their own system, and borrow something from theism in order to make their lives work. The person who believes that everything is valid, will soon find that he is condemned to meaninglessness. Christ is a standing offer of escape from such a hell as this To believe that truth is like Christ, is salvation indeed.

1,040 posted on 08/09/2002 3:10:24 PM PDT by f.Christian
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