U.S. Preparing World for Iraq Attack - Russia

reuters ^ | 7/24/02

[nunya bidness]

Thanks. I was getting woozy.

But it's Pooty-Toot.

[Askel5]

But it's pooty-toot

Busted.

I knew you'd been holding out on me.

It's only "pooty-toot" for Former Members
of the Top Secret Table Tennis GRoUp in Germany.

Tony Blair's gonna be so jealous when I tell him.
He only gets to play snooker ... and he has to wear pants the whole time.

[nunya bidness]

Seeing as it's a daily occurence that Vlad's in the news, I wonder if JimRob would like to host: A Day In The Life Of Vlad?

[Stavka2]

"Our glorious and imperial republic has not wiped out, with its own blood and treasure, the stain of slavery, plowed under the Habsburgs and Hohenzollerns, flattened imperial Japan, fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, and ground down the false dogma of communism -- we have NOT done all that, to be stopped now by a bunch of wild-eyed pistol-wavers from the 13th century. Men who think it a sagacious, pro-family move to remove the clitorises of pre-turn girls; who won't keep dogs as pets because they view those animals as "unclean," but who at the same time think nothing of wiping their own butts with their own bare hands -- such people have no hold on history or our national destiny."

Please don't break your arm trying to pat yourself on the back. Funny, as far as slavery goes in the Western civilization, the US was the Last to give it up and in the process lost many of the rights it had fought a revolution for. As for WW1, the US entered after everyone had been fighting for 4 long years and were exhausted. The Hapsburgs didn't collapse from the US but from the strain of the Eastern and Southern fronts. The Nazie Wehremacht was buried in the steppes of Russia. I'll concede Italy (though the British might have a bone to pick on that one) and Japan.

Communism would collapse on its own regardless, it is an unstable and untainable system. If Western socialists and intellectuals like Armnhammer and to some degree Ford, hadn't helped Stalin out in the first place, it would have fallen far more quickly.

As for the rest of the various world civilizations, got news for you. Just because they eat a Big Mac or drink Coca Cola does not mean they're going to adopt the Magna Carta or the Bill of Rights. Far from it. The only two civilizations that are close to the West are the Orthodox and the Latin Americans and both are still very different and unlike the West have not forgotten religion as a central tenant in their faith. The West is in decline and in the process is curtailing its own freedoms upon which its very civilization was built....like giving the military police powers, curtailing the need for warrents for wire taps, etc.

Lastly, just because the Islamics are nuts and disorganized, they are far far from defeated. At the same time, the Sinics and Hindus are coming into their own power and the Japanese are not to far behind again. Besides, only 400 million people speak English world wide and as a percentage of the population, that has dropped from the 1980s. Even America becomes predominantly spanish more and more.

[Stavka2]

Lets be honoest, both sides are just as guilty...directly and indirectly. The US after all trained Bin Ladin and crew and saved Arafat. It also supports Saudi Arabia which IS the worlds biggest terrorist supporter in the world.

[Stavka2]

Russia has said several times that as long as the new government honors its debts to Russia...$10 billion, all is cool.

[egarvue]

Don't break your heart sobbing in your beer over the so-called "death" of the West. You and I could go round and round for months on this (yes, I have a degree in history, and can spout off lots of examples just like you), but since all of the examples and arguments would be based on our respective world outlooks, it would be pointless. I am an optimist. You obviously are a pessimist. I see the coming triumph of the Western ideas of individualism and democracy. You see gloom and ruin. Oh well.

[pariah]

Hindus are coming into their own power and the Japanese are not to far behind again.

Actually, these two cultures are excellent evidence that Western-style 'democracy' can take firm root in foreign cultures. The quoted remarks were predicting the inevitable triumph of certain core ideas, not the world hegemony of Western culture per se.

[Stavka2]

I don't see myself as a pessimist but as a realist. There is a constant war between civilization. The obvious allies of the West is Orthodoxy and Latin but as for the West surviving....I don't know if it will, it is steadly being absorbed by the Islamic civilization. The problem is: unlike all other civilizations, the West has lots of theories but no religion to fall back on. For the most part, the West is post Christian and has lost its way...which is dangerous, which is why the Islamics are growing so fast in converts.

[PsyOp]

Pakistan trained Bin Laden, albeit with our money. Clinton and Hillary saved Arafat. Our contribution to this mess is miniscule compared to the former Soviets. If you would care for a list of reading material on the sublect, let me know.

There is no moral equivalency between our giving money to arm the Muhajidin against the Soviets, and the Soviets recruiting, training, arming, funding, and providing logistical support to terrorists all around the world for the purpose of destabilizing and overthrowing legitimate governments in the hope of replacing them with Soviet controlled regimes. A network, by the way, which included Cuba, Czechoslovakia, and East Germany as staging grounds.

[Stavka2]

How about the moral equivalency of protecting the Saudies while they sponsor the majority of the Islamic groups in the world? As for Arafat, not quite, Reagan saved ArafRat...you might recall that whole thing about Marines in Beruit, when the Isrealies had him surrounded and were moving in. Clinton just legitimized him. As for the training, there were CIA/SF groups in Paki and Afghani helping in the training and that's an established and admitted fact, sorry to burst the bubble of self denial.

I'm not protecting what the Soviets did, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to anyone else either. The US CIA destabilized quite a few regimes itself, especially throughout S. and Central America, looking the other way while death squads roamed the streets...like Guetimala, where the government has murdered 200,000 people, or looked the other way while Turkey butchered 100,000 Cypriots in an out right invasion and 50,000 Kurds. It also didn't mind Iraq's excesses while Sodamn was on the US pay roll...or Noreiga's for that matter. When Pakiestan butchered several million people in E. Pakistan (Banglidesh) and India intervened to help them, Nixon threatened India (a democracy) with the 6th Fleet. When Vietnam (communist) invaded Cambodia (communist) to oust the psychotic Caumon Rouge, the US again protested....like all major players, there is no ideology like that of right now and right here.