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ROLL OVER, CHE GUEVARA: 10% of Costa Rica's National Legislature is now Libertarian
Movimiento Libertario ^ | July 4, 2002 | Otto Guevara

Posted on 07/23/2002 9:22:00 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian

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To: nopardons; sourcery
We are a REPUBLIC . Third, fourth etc. parties can NOT work in this sytem. They can and do, when there is a parlimentary system in place. Your suggestion is unworkable here and won't ever happen.

The fact that we are a "Republic" is not in any way mutually exclusive with a Parliamentary system of Proportional Representation. There is nothing inherently contradictory about a Parliamentary Republic; the defining characteristic of a Republic is not a "winner-takes-all" electoral system, but rather equal treatment under law for all Men.

Check your copy of Samuel Rutherford's Lex Rex if you think otherwise. (Of course, since the soul of "Republicanism" is equal treatment under law, we become less and less of a "Republic" with the passage of each "law" from which Congress exempts its own members... a travesty against which Rush Limbaugh justly rails).

There's nothing "anti-republican" about a Parliamentary electoral system; our Republic just is not structured in that manner, that's all.

More's the pity.

21 posted on 07/23/2002 11:44:43 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: krb
Drat, somebody noticed. ;-)

I realized my mistake only after I posted it, but that's what I get for having only a year of high-school Spanish under my belt.

22 posted on 07/23/2002 11:46:02 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: sourcery; nopardons
Being a republic is completely orthogonal to whether elections use 'winner take all' or 'proportional representation.'

Ummm.... yeah, "orthogonal"... what he said.

A far more linguistically-economic statement of the case than my #21.
But, same point... ;-)

23 posted on 07/23/2002 11:48:22 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: nunya bidness
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian Just call me Paco the pool boy. Hell, I'll even work as a mate on a sportfisher. I hear it's better work than those longliners up north. 19 posted on 7/23/02 11:39 PM Pacific by nunya bidness

I'm dating a girl who bought a beach house in Costa Rica for a measly $40k.

Of course, you're well advised to boil your water, but Gringo Dollars still go a long way....

24 posted on 07/23/2002 11:50:21 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
I'm dating a girl who bought a beach house in Costa Rica for a measly $40k.

Two questions: does she have a sister and can she fish?

25 posted on 07/23/2002 11:56:29 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: sourcery
Nope; you are utterly wrong. Fringe parties must form a coalition, to make any difference , IF they get elected. They won't ever be elected to either House, nor to the presidency here , so that is a moot point.

We weren't set up to havce what you imagine it is that you desire . That too, makes it a moot point. OTOH, should ( GOD forbid ! ) you get what you claim to want, things would be untenable . Why ? Because the lefties would have more power than they do now, Conservatives ( and some socalled Conservatives ) would do what they ALWAYS do ; bicker / fight / get nothing done, and hand it all, on a silver platter, to the Dems/ Liberals / faaaaaaaaaar lefties. Doubt me ? Don't ! Look at the way the GOPers and the fringers fight on FR.

26 posted on 07/23/2002 11:56:54 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
It was structured as it is , for a reason. The FFs did NOT want a parlimentary system, with all its inherant problems ( such as coalitional governance ) and I doubt that we'll ever have one. Your wanting one, proves that you don't understand it. It also proves that you don't know as much history, as you may think you do.

You may not like what we have ; however, you wouldn't like, not one bit , a parlimant.

27 posted on 07/24/2002 12:00:43 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Around the second week in November 1992, I thought it wise to move to another country and Costa Rica was one of the two finalists. Subscribed to the Tico Times (published in Miami) to get a feel for the country. After reading that paper for 6 weeks, Costa Rica was disqualified and I moved to the Czech Republic (which had its own problems).

Probably would have been better off in Costa Rica. Anyone can get by in Spanish. Czech is impossible for most.

28 posted on 07/24/2002 12:00:58 AM PDT by LarryLied
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To: nopardons; sourcery; nunya bidness
It was structured as it is , for a reason. The FFs did NOT want a parlimentary system, with all its inherant problems ( such as coalitional governance ) and I doubt that we'll ever have one. Your wanting one, proves that you don't understand it. It also proves that you don't know as much history, as you may think you do. You may not like what we have ; however, you wouldn't like, not one bit , a parlimant. 27 posted on 7/24/02 12:00 AM Pacific by nopardons

Stop -- You're bloviating, and embarassing yourself.

The FF's reasonings for the rejection of a Parliamentary system do not even apply following the enaction of the 14th and the 17th Amendments.

Since you're such a History Buff, ace, I'm not even gonna explain my point; after all, you should be able to tell me why this is so, no???

Once you wrap your mind around the irrelevance of the FFs objections to Parliamentarism following the enaction of the 14th and 17th Amendments (which they would have certainly opposed), perhaps you'll understand when I say I am not "pining" after a Parliamentary System in America... I am just enjoying the pleasure of watching the unfolding political drama in Costa Rica.

After all -- I do not pledge unquestioning Allegiance to the Flag, mi amigo. If Costa Rica develops into the kinda place which Patrick Henry woulda called Home, then there ain't no more "my country right or wrong" for me. Viva Costa Libertaria!!

29 posted on 07/24/2002 12:22:24 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
It's just a boat ride away. Stay dry down there.
30 posted on 07/24/2002 12:25:54 AM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: LarryLied; nunya bidness
Around the second week in November 1992, I thought it wise to move to another country and Costa Rica was one of the two finalists.

It wasn't the right time.

The Libertarian Party of Costa Rica did not even exist in 1992. Now they control 10% of the National Congress.

To my knowledge, this is the strongest advance of Libertarianism in any friendly country in the last decade... with the possible exception of Ireland, where almost the entire Legislature has been pretending to be Tax-Cut, Free-Market Libertarians for the last five years (aside from that rather bloody Belfast squabble with the Brits), ever since their Socialist Welfare State ran completely out of money.

31 posted on 07/24/2002 12:27:49 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: nunya bidness
It's just a boat ride away. Stay dry down there. 30 posted on 7/24/02 12:25 AM Pacific by nunya bidness

Speaking of boats, the Lobster Season is about to open in the Keys...

...so any time you want a landlubber Deck-hand who's about nine years outta practice, you know my FReepMail.

Of course, I was never in practice for Lobster; even back in the day, I've only Crabbed and Shrimped -- so I make no promises. ;-)

32 posted on 07/24/2002 12:32:14 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Nope, no bloviation here, dear. :-)

You may have been staying on topic; however, if you can bring yourself to actually read what I wroye and to whom , you'll discover that it was an answer to what that poster had written about the USA !

Sorry, you aren't even close, to refuting what I said. I shall; however, mark you down as one who has decided what is what, re the FF's thinking, Ammendments, and the current state of things. :-)

Should Costa Rica become a " Libertarian " haven, then you and the other FR Libertarians, should all move there. LOL

33 posted on 07/24/2002 12:46:30 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
>>There's nothing "anti-republican" about a Parliamentary electoral system; our Republic just is not structured in that manner, that's all.<<

One of the most obvious problems with proportional representation is when the two major parties have 48% each and the small third party has 4% of the votes. Under these conditions the small party holds the balance of power and can ally with either side to make a majority. That gives far too much power to the tiny party.

I am sure there is a way to avoid this problem, but it is pretty sticky on the surface.

34 posted on 07/24/2002 12:59:05 AM PDT by LloydofDSS
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Proportional Representation gives far more power to the parties then our current system. Right now if all the homosexual advocates that vote created their own party in a proportional representation system they would outnumber the libertarian party and constution party put together.

This country is about federalism not democratic rules. This nation would go down the socialist slope faster then both republican and democrat party is pushing it at this time.
35 posted on 07/24/2002 1:09:01 AM PDT by Brush_Your_Teeth
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To: nopardons; Demidog; sourcery; nunya bidness
You may have been staying on topic; however, if you can bring yourself to actually read what I wroye and to whom , you'll discover that it was an answer to what that poster had written about the USA!

Your #27 was addressed to me, Einstein; you posted it in direct response to my #21. Check the thread notes.

If you can bring yourself to read what you actually wrote and to whom, you'll realize that you wrote to me, and I responded to you.

Good grief.

Should Costa Rica become a " Libertarian " haven, then you and the other FR Libertarians, should all move there. LOL

Ain't no need for quotation marks, "dear" -- the Movimiento Libertario is an expressly libertarian party, and has always proclaimed itself as such. And on that basis, they've taken 10% of the Costa Rican National Congress in the space of 8 years. Critical mass......

And as such, if Costa Rica does become a Libertarian Haven, "dear", I should be happy to keep a winter home there. A place to keep my guns, my money, and my family from the prying eyes of US Reichland Security? What could be so bad about that?

The last two times a third-world backwater tried Libertarianism as a governing system, one became Switzerland and the other became... the United States of America, at least in her early days.

Not a bad record.

36 posted on 07/24/2002 1:14:53 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Brush_Your_Teeth; nunya bidness; Demidog
Proportional Representation gives far more power to the parties then our current system. Right now if all the homosexual advocates that vote created their own party in a proportional representation system they would outnumber the libertarian party and constution party put together.

You ever spent any time around a clique of homosexual men?
Like, in real life, for example?

I have never in my life encountered such a group of jealous, self-absorbed back-stabbers as homosexual men in a group environment.

"Homosexual advocates" have about as much chance of creating their own "party" as rival tomcats in heat. To a certain extent, the Christian Right has created an environment for "homosexual advocacy" by giving them something to be opposed to -- Christian "influence" in politics.

Just speaking from my own anecdotal observations... If it weren't for the political machinations of the Christian Right providing them with an "enemy", if you put more than five homosexuals in a room together they will kill eachother over their mutual "claims" to the nearest boy-toy... politics be damned.

This country is about federalism not democratic rules. This nation would go down the socialist slope faster then both republican and democrat party is pushing it at this time.

Or, not.

The experience of Costa Rica says otherwise.

And so, I watch, and wait... happy to see the Movimiento Libertario is guiding Costa Rica from socialism to libertarianism with each passing day.

Viva Costa Libertaria!!

37 posted on 07/24/2002 1:31:46 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: LloydofDSS; Demidog; nunya bidness
One of the most obvious problems with proportional representation is when the two major parties have 48% each and the small third party has 4% of the votes. Under these conditions the small party holds the balance of power and can ally with either side to make a majority. That gives far too much power to the tiny party. I am sure there is a way to avoid this problem, but it is pretty sticky on the surface.

Yeah, boo-hoo, it sucks.

Except when the 10% (not four percent) Third Party is the Libertarian Party, as is currently the case in Costa Rica.

Then, we're the KingMakers.

And we like that just fine.

Liberty and Capitalism and Freedom and stuff starts breaking out all over.

We like that.

38 posted on 07/24/2002 1:46:47 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: LarryLied
Around the second week in November 1992,

LOL! I hear you! Are you still in Czech or have you decided it was safe to go back to the States? BTW, what made you rule out Costa Rica in the first place? My wife and I are looking for a new country to move to after we finish doing up our house here in Scotland. Maybe Costa Rica is a good candidate. We wanted to learn Spanish anyway.

39 posted on 07/24/2002 5:24:25 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
This is bad news for the Satanic Druids, and Illuminatis in Costa Rica!
40 posted on 07/24/2002 5:27:18 AM PDT by Destructor
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