It s like they aren t even trying to pretend anymore

http://reason.com ^ | July 16, 2002 | By Brian Doherty

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

I'm sure you don't have anything to hide...from a normal common-sense person. Care to quote me odds on every single one of the million people in the first stage of the program being normal common-sense people? All you need is one goofball, or one gun hater, or one radical vegan, and there you go.

OK and what about skeletons in your closet or your wifes closet or your kids closet or for that matter your close freinds closet heck it could be anyone anytime someone from your past you had forgotten about someone who has a different veiw of how the world should be this could be anyone at anytime invading your home your garage and whats worse their invited by invitation or just doping their job

no sir this sucks and it sucks real loud

[Jim Scott]

I appreciated your comments but the thread is fast becoming little more than an exercise in paranoia and Republican bashing while ranting about how it's all over for America and Bush and Ashcroft did it.

Your points are valid and well taken but as most of the proceeding posts show, the urge to bash Bush and say 'Orwellian' over and over seem to overcome any modicum of common sense or serious examination of the programs being 'discussed'.

I believe that President Bush has become Goldman for a lot of folks. It's almost - Orwellian.

[steve50]

We should have paid a little more attention when his father started that New World Order crap. Too late now.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

doping = doing

[Tasha]

Some dumb people advised President Bush to go on a limb and try to do something which everybody in America (democrats and republicans) hates.
America, home of the free and the brave, not the home of snitches and the afraid.
I do personally like President Bush very much, but this nonsense must stop.

[RedwM]

you're right... clinton would have done the same thing.

[steve50]

Why don't you want to criticize Republicans? Right is right and wrong is wrong, what they are trying to do to us is wrong.
I'm an American before I'm a republican, my Constitution comes before my former party. I don't see how anyone who cherishes the principles our nation was founded on can support either side of the one party system that rules us.

[RepRivFarm]

It is not paranoia when you recognize that civil liberties are being taken away with no requirement to retrun them. Are we supposed to just sit quietly and take it?

[Tasha]

I'm still trying to keep the eleven commandments in tact - I had (and have) a lot of respect for Presdient Reagan.

[Memother]

Very disturbing stuff, we need to know.

[Deb]

Yeah! You better hide your stash in your mom's sock drawer.

[Pistias]

suicide pact

A militarized nation by definition cannot be a free nation. What is this, if not less-than-usually gradual militarization and federal centralization? Perhaps it's necessary to "fight terrorism" (though one must wonder why we Americans need so much protection--oh, yeah, laws against guns and balls!), but what are we fighting to save--our lives? At the cost of what makes (or perhaps once made) us American?

[Hoosier Patriot]

Very well said, and there's nothing that comes to mind that needs to be added to your sentiments. I feel exactly the same way. The fact that those in power at any given point in time belong to the perceived "good party" or the perceived "bad party" is a moot point when the very liberty they profess to defend is a casualty of the chosen methods of defense.

As you stated, right is right and wrong is wrong, no matter from where it originates.

[rmlew]

It is entirely normal and empected under our Constitional order that givernment power grows temporarily during war.
Also, I hardly think that having a standardised practice or way to inform the authorities of a possible attack is dangerous. It is the responsibility of citizens to help protect the Republic.

[Black Agnes]

I agree with you in theory. However, look around 'us' in our immediate vicinity and tell me who would rat out whom the fastest? We live in a veritable nest of liberal/commies. When they succeed in getting one of theirs elected, it'll be freepers that'll be 'enemies of the republic'...

Good rule of thumb. If you think it's OK for Bush/etc to do it...substitute Hillary/Gore/Daschle for Bush and see if it still sounds like a good idea. This one fails that test in my book...YMMV

[Hoosier Patriot]

It is the responsibility of citizens to help protect the Republic.

Absolutely. A good citizen will always do what is right and just in defense of the Republic of his own accord.

But why is it that the government feels the need to "recruit" citizens to perform this task? Do they feel that there aren't enough good citizens that will? Don't they trust our own judgement? Must we be recruited and trained in how to do this "properly," as they see fit? Must we be a "member" of a seperate, sanctioned group to perform this duty?

[Pistias]

givernment power grows temporarily during war

Well, you're about half right. It grows to the amount necessary to wage a major war--i.e., total--and then it draws back, bigger than it was originally.

[ellery]

But an informal basis is more acceptable -- it's when the government builds a formal infrastructure that I start getting jumpy. Once in place, it's not likely to go away...and is extremely likely to be abused.

[ellery]

You're exactly right -- war powers exist for a reason...and they provide a finite envelope for the government to exercise those powers. MR. PRESIDENT, ASK CONGRESS TO DECLARE WAR NOW!!!

[ellery]

The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good people to remain silent.