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Freeper Views on Origins
Alamo-Girl | 7/16/2002 | Alamo-Girl

Posted on 07/16/2002 9:33:12 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl

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To: rwfromkansas
Interesting. But the Jews in conveying Torah were and never have been Trinitarians. Though this possessive sense could be interpreted too as including all the other creatures that God had created to that time.

I find it instructive however, that this "likeness" endowed by God, and then increasingly assumed by Man over his creation, establishes the battle between good and evil which has raged within him, and with God, ever since...which so far as we can tell, has never been the case with any other entity.

In that sense, the most profound question we could ask of any (extra)-terrestrial intelligence we may eventually encounter, is whether they too perceive of a deity in the universe.

141 posted on 07/22/2002 8:25:52 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Alamo-Girl
the solar system and stars look the same today as they did 6000 years ago

I was just fitting that into the 6000 year old earth hypothesis. I think that as we keep digging up the ground we will find the universe looked the same 30,000 years ago, too, although records that far back are still kind of scarce.

6000 years isn't really that long ago. If there is an unbroken chain of old men telling young children about the old days, say a 75 year old telling a 15 year old, throughout the years, we can cover that span with just 100 people. 30 people would take us back to thew time of Christ, and if they were all alive at once they could fit in one end of the dining room at Denny's. It's not so impressive as far as scale.

142 posted on 07/22/2002 8:28:34 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
So sorry. My bad. I thought you were saying that was my "take" on the subject. Thank you for sharing your views!
143 posted on 07/22/2002 8:31:59 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; JediGirl
I do not know how literally true Genesis is; I do not try to force the Bible to fit the scientific facts. Your interpretation is excellent, but what about the Noah's flood? The evidence for a worldwide flood is not exactly abundant, and it is hard to reconcile the Noah's flood with the Bible.

JediGirl makes a good point. (JG, bumped ya like you requested!) Faith is not faith if you believe that you have tangible proof--why do we need to try to reconcile every verse in the Bible with the scientific & historic evidence out there? If we need to make reconcilations in order to be comfortable with our belief in the Bible, that would signify a lack of faith on our part.

To me, Genesis means more than a simple account of the creation of the world. It tells me that every human, every generation since prehistoric times has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. In other words, we all repeat the story of Adam and Eve in our lives--we do such destructive things and we throw away so much good for only a simple piece of forbidden fruit.

As for its scientific and historical value, I am extremely hesistant to conjure up theories without any proof, although I've certainly thought about it. One thing, though: we all too often miss the spiritual point of those views! The first two chapters of Genesis are a good summary of the destructiveness of sin, and how easily our human natures give into it.

What we do with our personal lives and how we treat others around us is far more important than the degree of "literalness" of our belief in the Bible--read through the books of Romans and Corinthians to see how we should behave in the world and in the church.

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

144 posted on 07/22/2002 8:42:33 PM PDT by Nataku X
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To: rwfromkansas
Even its textual integrity remains more accurate to this day

Picked up a Greek NT today. What is interesting as far as textual integrity is concerned is that they give the source documents for the version printed in the book. Where other versions exist, they acknowledge that. It leaves some wiggle room, but NT Greek is pretty well understood, even if interpreations of meaning aren't so widely uniform.

145 posted on 07/22/2002 8:44:35 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Nakatu X
Thank you so much for sharing your views!

I have a "take" on the subject of Noah and the patriarchs, etc. that is an extension of this one - but I thought it might be better to limit the subject matter of this thread to origins. Do you think I ought to kick off another thread next week?

146 posted on 07/22/2002 8:55:30 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Do you think I ought to kick off another thread next week?

Definitely. But please link it to this one. All so informative and inspirational. Thanks so much.

147 posted on 07/22/2002 9:08:37 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
Ok, then I will kick one off probably next weekend and will link it back here. I'm so very glad the discussion is helpful to you! Hugs!!!
148 posted on 07/22/2002 9:14:04 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Go ahead and take on it next week if you want to. Your take on Genesis does seem to make sense; and I'm sure everyone here is very interested in your interpretation of Noah's flood!
149 posted on 07/23/2002 4:05:06 AM PDT by Nataku X
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To: Nakatu X
Ok, I will kick off another thread through Noah. Thank you so very much for the encouragement!!!
150 posted on 07/23/2002 4:36:24 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: rwfromkansas
"Frankly, I am not surprised that Inherit the Wind would make stuff up to further the evolution agenda." LOL! I've got a copy of the trial transcript and it's a real eye-opener, very different from the fictionalized version of ITW.
151 posted on 07/23/2002 9:30:53 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Nakatu X
"To me, Genesis means more than a simple account of the creation of the world. It tells me that every human, every generation since prehistoric times has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. In other words, we all repeat the story of Adam and Eve in our lives--we do such destructive things and we throw away so much good for only a simple piece of forbidden fruit."

How profoundly true. The problem I have with Hegel's dialectic, Marx's adaptation of Hegel, and Darwin's theory of natural selection or "the survival of the fittest" is that they teach man is perfectable, that the process of history will produce a "new man." This is just plain wrong - man is inherently flawed. The Founders, especially John Adams, understood this, which is why the Constitution contains so many checks and balances to keep our human natures from doing too much damage through our human government.

152 posted on 07/23/2002 9:38:47 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
>The problem I have with Hegel's dialectic, Marx's adaptation of Hegel, and Darwin's theory of natural selection or "the survival of the fittest" is that they teach man is perfectable, that the process of history will produce a "new man."

Bingo!

153 posted on 07/25/2002 8:42:01 AM PDT by LostTribe
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To: Alamo-Girl
>The Bible is the inerrant Word of God. or not.

I have no problem with that conceptually at all. But at the practical and operating level it is not so simple. Which Bible, the KJV? If so, which VERSION of the KJV? The original which contained apocrypha? Which apocrypha? Or the later NKJV which corrected many acknowledged errors but may have added it's own? Etc., etc., etc.

>It is a revealed truth which cannot be discovered scientifically, a person either hears His voice...

Yes, but what if he reveals something different to me than to you?

154 posted on 07/25/2002 8:54:44 AM PDT by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
Thank you for your post!!!

I believe that, if God wanted all of us to think the same way, there wouldn't have been 12 disciples with such different personalities and points of view. If we had to all be like one of them, my choice would have been John because he loved Jesus so very much!

That which all of us Christians, all Christian denominations and the disciples shared is the Holy Spirit. And He speaks to each us about what is Truth.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. - I Corinthians 2:9-12

My two cents...


155 posted on 07/25/2002 9:10:12 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
>I believe that, if God wanted all of us to think the same way, there wouldn't have been 12 disciples with such different personalities and points of view.

That generally works for me. It is the very heart of a Prophets work but fits poorly with any institutionalized church which relys on it's "high priests" to maintain absolute unformity and conformity without benefit of added enlightment over time.

PS, I'll take Paul. Without him there would be no grace-based Christianity, only an abberent form of Judaism, IMHO.

156 posted on 07/25/2002 9:35:28 AM PDT by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
I understand and would add that it is good to investigate what we are told:

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - Acts 17:10-11

157 posted on 07/25/2002 9:58:17 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thanks for your post.

I worked at a large R&D Laboratory from which the proponents of the "Big Bang" theory ("BBT")as the source of the creation, were awarded the Nobel Prize.

One day at lunch, I was asked my opinion of the BBT. I said that I was disappointed that some very bright, world recognized physicists and scientists would offer a theory that required some elements (gases?) to be in exactly the correct position to be ignited by an unidentified ignition source and create a universe of "Infinite Order & Design!"

How did all the necessary elements just happen to be in the correct place, in the correct proportions and the ignition (from where?) source be the CREATION?

I can't comprehend the CREATION based on the laws of Physics, because I understand that an outcome can't be achieved without inputs.

I have a very comfortable understanding that the CREATION was the design of a very powerful force and I call that force GOD! I don't need everyone to hold the same point of view, and each person has to accept that which makes them comfortable. For me it is GOD and I only need to see the Sun rise and set, the trees and flowers bloom, the seasons cycle, and the birth of a child.

My point of view.
158 posted on 07/25/2002 10:50:52 AM PDT by leprechaun9
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To: leprechaun9
Thank you so very much for sharing your view and your testimony! Hugs!!!
159 posted on 07/25/2002 11:02:11 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: JediGirl
Then you do not have faith. Belief in the existence of God requires nothing tangible to tell you god exists. The whole point of Christianity is that it's a system based on faith in the unknown. There's no tangible proof in God. God says he refuses to prove he exists because proof denies faith and without faith God is nothing.

So then what makes belief in the Christian god morally superior to belief in any other god? And if you don't have any proof that he exists how can you go around telling people that they will go to hell if they don't believe in him. For all you know, when you die you might find out that the christian god is fake and the "rock god" is real. Your punishment for not believing in the rock god could be to be pelted with boulders and stones for the rest of eternity.

160 posted on 07/25/2002 11:28:43 AM PDT by rmmcdaniell
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