YOUNGER GENERATION NON-CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS REJECTING BIRTH CONTROL

LifeSite Daily News ^ | 7/12/02

[nopardons]

Many ( actually, VERY many ! ) wished that they had had less children.

Oh, and as far as our FFs and geniuses coming from / having large famililes ? How many of those children lived into adulthood and / or were geniuses ? Think about that ? Also, I would very much like to know just what your source is, for this ; just your own imaginings ?

[nopardons]

Most mothers were NOT in the work force, in 1957.

Almost NO ONE expected that their kids were going to go to college; let alone get an advanced degree, in 1957.

You are quoting an " average ", which means that many people, in 1957 , had three, two, one, or NO children. As a matter of fact, it REALLY ( as it does today ) depends on where people live, what socio-economic class they are in, their education level, their religion, as well as their expectations for their children, as to how many they have.

There are some people, who shouldn't ever have any children. Knowing one's limits, is far better, than just having child after child, that you don't want, aren't able to handle, and can not provide for, in ant way !

I was around, in 1957, and you weren't. Why did you pick that year ?

[SamBees]

SUPER!

[dsutah]

I don't think so. What's your problem? Can't stand to be challenged? For your information, I've done a lot of reading on people throughout history. Yes, you're right about many of the people of the old times losing a lot of children at young ages, but there were other reasons they had large families.

Many people adored children, and were proud of their ability to produce a lot of them. Didn't you read recently; where it is said that in some parts of the world, even among the lower income people, that they want to have children, and actually don't want to use birth control?

There are people who are religious conservatives, and believe in having large families? And as far as people in the recent past, both of my grandparents, and both parents came from families which had at the minimum 5 children, and the maximum of about 8 or 9! They seemed to enjoy those big families! You might say, well this is Utah. This is true. But one parent came from Nevada, and she's R. Catholic!

Our family is aquainted with 2 young families in their 30's and 40's who have about 7-9 children apiece! They are of average income, they struggle at times, but work hard, and manage as well as those of few children. So don't give me the junk, suggesting they may not of done this on their own free will!

[nopardons]

Oh, for crying out loud ... grow up ! It appears that it is YOU, who can't stand being challenged. :-)

If some people crave large families, fine ; they just shouldn't claim that theirs is the ONLY way and smear everyone else, who doesn't. It is even worse, when they attempt to bring religion and GOD into it. And as far as giving their children the same , as those who choose to have one or two, that is patently ridiculous, unless they have an enormous income / inheritence. It's usually the people, with many kids, who expect those who don't, to pay the freight. Doubt me Don't ! Who do you suppose actually pays for the scholarships , that they feel is their children's burth right ?

People used to want children, for many reasons; not the ;east of which was to help work the farm, work to bring in money, to help the family survive, and / or to replace ( make certain that there was someone to carry on the family name ) those who died/ might die. In some parts of the world, male heirs were / are all that are important. For all of your supposed reading , it's a pity that you still don't seem to know all that much about this subject. :-)

[nopardons]

I saw that, but it still doesn't matter. For all of that, you could have used 1857. LOL

[dsutah]

Grow up huh? What makes you so great and mature huh? I'm mature enough, thank you! Because I don't cave in to your way of thinking, I'm childish, eh? So, what do you propose, controlling people like animals, if they aren't rich enough to your way of thinking? To some people, their children are their treasure, more precious than gold. And if they work hard and take care of that gold, they should have it, shouldn't they? Is it up to the rest of us to decide?

Yeah, I suppose there are 'many' who wish for less. But there are 'many' who wish they had more than they do. What about the people of China? There are people, middle class people, who could take care of a few more, but they have to ask for 'permission' from the authorities to have one, let alone more. Oh, of course they may try to get away with more, if they are lucky. But it is common knowledge of what happens if they are caught! Or didn't you know?

As for people that came before us. They were mostly hard-working people who saved and sacrificed so that they could take care of their big families before there was such thing as welfare. I really respect those people that dare to do such a thing now. I can't say I could do it, could you? Please consider before you sit in judgement!

[crystalk]

Can you imagine how low-down and degenerate the next generation will be, descended only from people who were too dumb to know how to prevent a birth?

[nopardons]

Oh for goodness sakes alive; what a temper tantrum !

Look, if you assume that I don't know about the birth restrictions in China, then you are certainly far too full of yourself ( not to mention egocentric ) to even bother with posting on FR; your poor widdle ego is going to continually get bruised badly. As too your quip about " middle class " COMMUNIST CHINESE ", I think that it is YOU, dear, who need much more of an education.

FWIW, birth control methods have been around for millenia; nothing at all new about thaem. That people consider/ ed their progeny as " wealth " is debatable, in the context that you've put it in.Their daughters were indeed used to expand their " wealth " , as were their sons, in many different ways. The poor have ALWAYS said this ( when they weren't leaving their babies on the front steps of churches and / or orphanages, because they couldn't afford them ; that is, when they weren't shipping them oout to be servants of the aristocracy, sending them off to be in armies / navies [at very tender ages ], crippling / maiming them, so that they could earn money begging, and later [ when it didn't COST MONEY !] sending them off to convents and monistaries, or just killing them. ) because they had / would never have any monitary wealth. But then, you are oh so intelligent, well read, and an expert on this topic, that it was pointless of me, to have even bothered to tell you any of this. Right ? LOL

I respect people who are good parents, do NOT expect others, in any way, shape, manner, or form, to provide for their children , and raise a new crop of thoughtful, responsible adults ; no matter how many they pop out. Oh, and BTW, NO ONE , in this country, is told how many kids they can have, so I don't understand your obsession with this, nor your ridiculous insinuation, that I, of all people, have any control over other's reproductive life.

If you can't understand why I chastenbed you and told you to " greow up ". reread your responses to me, and then get someone to expalin it to you, dear. :-)

[Rytwyng]

Spetznaz -- you are apparently unaware that the West is in a desperate fertility crisis which poses a real threat of total civilizational collapse in a couple of generations. Direct defiance of God is clearly the reason. Whether or not contraception, per se, is absolutely wrong, nevertheless itis certain that the post-Christian feminist West's HATRED OF CHILDREN is wrong -- and this anti-child attitude is, of course, the main reason for our catastrophic fertility drop.

BurkeCalhounDabney -- In your defense, I repost my comments form an earlier dead thread --

Food for thought... In Russia, the Baptists and Pentecostals have long considered contraception to be wrong. And so, in Russia, with one of the lowest birthrates in the world (due to abortion, contraception, etc), and a skyrocketing AIDS rate, one subset of the population is having 8-10 kids per couple -- the Bible believers. Do the projections -- in a few generations, virtually every Russian will have at least one Bible-believing grandparent, if they're not actual believers themselves. Now THAT is CULTURAL IMPACT!!!

Question: Will American Christians seize the opportunity? Or will we contracept ourselves into oblivion, and leave the land empty for a more deserving nation to move in? If we don't want it, someone else will be happy to have it.

Congratulations on #6. I have to cut this post short, my bride of 4 weeks is calling me to bed... gotta do my part to rectify the Western fertility crisis!

[dsutah]

Good Grief, if you could just look at what you've writtn! No, 'my dear', you're the one who is getting all too hysterical. You are raving and ranting and too full of yourself! Can't you see anyone else's viewpoint without getting insulting? Why must you talk down to people like that?

Why should I bother to post on FR with my 'poor widdle ego'? You ask me! Why do you, with your attitude? Is this supposed to be your own little kingdom, with your own little clique? I didn't realize FR was so full of such little cliques. Well forgive me for stumbling into your little sanctuary, your highness!/sarcasm. But I have just as much right to post here as you, 'your highness'!

With attitudes like yours, it's a wonder many people don't leave, and go to friendlier places! But no thanks to you and a handfull of other rude people, I think I'll stick around and be a thorn in your side. Because some other people have welcomed me, and respected my viewpoints; without stooping to insulting comments about my intelligence and maturity.

I'm not a disruptor, liberal, idiot, child, or whatever. I've been on here since 1998 as a lurker; and I'll bet I have just about, or almost as much education and intelligence as you have. I don't know exactly what your age is, or your education, and I'll respect you enough not to ask, or presume to know. But I would hope for the same courtesy from you.

I've been an avid reader long before the internet came around, and one of my favorite subjects was history. I don't understand your need to force your opinion on me, I was trying to defend mine. So if you please, you can get off your 'high horse', and come on down with the rest of us mortals, Thank You!!

[nopardons]

ROTFLMSOF !

Tsk, tsk, tsk ... reread your latest , to me, and then decide just which of us sounds " hysterical ". Do calm down, dear. :-)

[dsutah]

I'll not be insulted by you, 'dear'!

[nopardons]

It sounds as though you already have been, though I didn't do that. Better stop living in that " glass house ", dear; you've been flinging a ton of rocks. LOL

[Aedammair]

Evil perhaps? I don't know. But do supply the numbers and the backup reasearch, and let me know how that negates my point.

[pray4liberty]

So what's the difference then?

In a word, money.

[nopardons]

Do get and read " THE KINDESS OF STRANGERS " , as a start. Then, I'll give you a more comprehensive book list. :-)

[Aedammair]

Thanks for the erudition.

[nopardons]

No problem. : - )