The Weekly Standard's House Muslim (Islamist critic Stephen Schwartz is a Sufi convert)

Slate ^ | July 3, 2002 | Timothy Noah

[Stultis]

I was clued into this story by CAIR's emailed news clippings. This is ironic considering that CAIR and other like-minded groups in the American "Wahhabi Lobby" are the main ones furthering the false notion that critics of Islamism are ipso facto anti-Muslim bigots).

[Publius]

Technically, the Sufis are Muslims. If you ask a Sufi in the presence of a Sunni (or Shia) cleric, he'll tell you enthusiastically that Sufism is but a part of Islam.

But get that Sufi away from the prying ears of the clerics, and he'll tell you that Sufism long predates Islam and goes back to Hellenized antiquity.

[What Is Ain't]

Or was he worried about the corresponding (less openly acknowledged) taboo within the neoconservative world against associating with Muslims?

Neocons tend not to choose to associate with people who are death-enemies of America.

The fact that so few muslims fall into that category does not, by extension, make neocons anti-muslim.

[Grampa Dave]

I guess that your great insight here (thanks by the way) makes this clymer the ultimate, JINO!

[Shermy]

If he were a Christian, should he have made a point about it? It's his business.

[eshu]

"Dominion of the earth from end to end is worth less than a drip of blood upon the earth."

- Jaladin Rumi, 13th century Sufi mystic

Sufism actually *is* a religion of peace - and they have been persecuted as "heretics" for centuries by orthodox Muslims.

Like the ancient gnostic Christians, Sufism is just too free-wheeling and mystical to be easily integrated into the clerical power structure.

[Bogie]

#2

Could you please elaborate on the "Hellenized antiquity?"

I have long believed that there is, at that point in time, a very important philosophical milestone for the development of Christianity as well.

[philosofy123]

Never in a million years I could have imagined a Jewish guy converting to Islam!

[philosofy123]

What about the Bahai? Is that another sect of Islam?

[Grampa Dave]

I understand that the Sufis are not very welcome as People of peace in Iraq, Iran and Syria.

From my limited knowledge, I have heard that they are a peaceful group of people.

[Stultis]

What about the Bahai? Is that another sect of Islam?

I'll jump in, even though I don't know much. The guy (don't remember his name) that started this religion, early in this century IIRC, claimed to be a prophet or divine incarnation or somesuch. Either claim is inimical to Islam, which holds that Mohammed was the last prophet, and rejects absolutely the whole notion of divine incarnations. I believe that Bahais have been heavily persecuted in some Muslim countries. The founder of Bahaism was a bit like Mohammed, however, in that he believed his new religion synthesized the other major faiths, and (unrealistically) expected Christians, Muslims and Jews to flock to the new "higher" faith.

[untenured]

That pretty much agrees with my understanding. I believe that the Bahais' claim to have superceded Islam because Mohammed, like Jesus, was just another prophet, is unusually grating to some fundamentalist Muslims, who view the Koran as God's final revelation. Hence, hundreds of Bahais were executed as heretic Muslims in postrevolutionary Iran.

Interestingly, Bahais say that God explicitly endorses the equality of the sexes in a way that is (by design, I would argue) opposite to Islam.

There is a huge Bahai temple (perhaps their North American headquarters?) in Evanston, IL.

[Publius]

For religious shorthand purposes, think of the Bahais as Islamic Unitarians.

[jwfiv]

What you say re: Sufism is also my long-held perception. It is orientedt to the mystic and peaceful side of the transcendental equation. I knew someone who palled around with Hazrat Inayat Khan, a Sufi master who toured America in the 30s and 40s. The Khan was a true rabbi, a great soul who's keynote was the One-ness underlying the major faiths. He would not approve of the islamo-nazi death cult.

[Publius]

Once there was an excellent magazine called "Gnosis" that went belly up in 1999 after 15 years of monthly publication. It billed itself as the magazine of "Western spiritual and esoteric traditions". Each issue was dedicated to a different topic, and one issue was dedicated entirely to Sufism.

In that issue, there was an article about whether Sufism existed before Islam or not, and that is where I discovered that Sufis will give you different answers depending on whether an Islamic cleric is present. Those Sufis who maintain that their faith pre-existed Mohammed claim an origin point common to the Greek mystery cults and the Kaballah.

This opens up tantalizing possibilities for those who wish to go beyond the Bible and the Koran and enter the world of religious anthropology.

[Publius]

The Sufis (mystical) and Bahais (modern) represent two different paths of Islam totally separate from Wahabbism. Once Islam comes to terms with its death wish, these two branches will lead the way to peace and religious integration.

[mikeIII]

From all that's being said here, it would seem a dramatic improvement if Muslims converted( adopted ?) to Sufism or the Bahai faith.

[Publius]

A FReeper whose handle is "Persian Libertarian" predicted that once the Iranian mullahs fell and Iran re-entered the modern age, the Iranian people would be the first in the Islamic world to abjure Islam and adopt Bahaism wholesale.