US Taxpatriates - Compiled by the Internal Revenue Service

Action America ^ | FR Post 7-7-2 | Editorial Staff - John Gaver

[Willie Green]

When the government of the United States destroys the freedoms that were originally associated with being a citizen of the United States then the value of being an American citizen drops to nothing.

If you truly believe that, then LEAVE.
And don't let the door hit you in the @$$.

[monkeyshine]

But in the renunciation of their citizenship they mock our Founders, our Flag and all those who served and died in battle to win and defend our freedom and liberty

With all due respect, I think you forgot that our Founders not only renounced their citizenships but actually took up arms against their government.

[Hostage]

Dear Mr. Green,

There was no federal income tax during the life of the patriot Sam Adams.

If there had been, it is certain that such patriots would have dedicated their lives to its prohibition.

Yours truly,

An American Patriot in the year of our Lord 2002.

[monkeyshine]

"because of a 2 cent tax on their favorite breakfast beverage" :-)

[BADROTOFINGER]

No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation.

I guess he meant that socialist thugs are the 'vigilant' preservers. You seem to like taking quotes out of context to support an arguement that you cant lucidly make yourself...JFK

[Willie Green]

If there had been, it is certain that such patriots would have dedicated their lives to its prohibition.

As should today's patriots.
The form of taxation preferred by our Founders was the tariff, as it was considered the least intrusive on individual Americans.

These hypocritical 'taxpatriots' did not choose that course.
Instead, the slimey cowards have chosen to evade their responsibility and have renounced their citizenship.

[Willie Green]

I guess he meant that socialist thugs are the 'vigilant' preservers.

Why would you assume that?

MacArthur was GOP -- a staunch conservative.

[Action-America]

Indeed, but you have to ask a certain set of questions before you consider them some randian hero. (1) do they in fact seek freedom?

Although I cannot speak for all expats, I have had occasion to meet quite a few expats and to a man, their primary concern was not taxes, but the lack or privacy and/or risk of unwarranted confiscation of ALL of their assets.

(2) are the freedoms they seek availible to those that are in the working and middle classes of the nation they are moving to?

In most of the countries favored by expats, the answer is a very decided, "Yes."  In fact, expats look for such countries, since they are more stable.

(3) is the nation they are moving to even a free nation? If they move to any Western nation other than Switzerland they are automatically hypocrites.

As with the previous question, most of the countries favored by expats are decidedly "free" and for the same reasons as above.  Free countries are more prone to stability.  But, while on the subject of freedom, I should point out that, depending on which freedom survey you read, there are between 6 and 14 nations that rate higher than the US.

Also, it should be noted that no other Western nation taxes the offshore income of it's citizens, so they have no reason to track their citizens' offshore financial activities.  Among Western nations, only US citizens must disclose all of their worldwide financial activities every year (and pay tax on worldwide income).  Similarly, only US citizens risk losing everything that they own, regardless of where in the world their assets were acquired, how they were acquired or where they may be domiciled.  As far as risk and privacy are concerned, even socialist leaning Canada offers more than the US.

(4) are they even moving away because of money or less accountabilitiy?

See the answer to question 1, above.  It has much less to do with the level of taxation or accountability than with privacy and the risk of unwarranted confiscation of their assets.  It's a sad statement about where we have come, as a nation, that many Americans now consider their assets safer from unwarranted confiscation in other countries, than in the USA.

Oh and do you know what the law enforcement can be like in places like the Bahamas? Guys going in with MP-5s and various other automatic weapons and simply gunning down criminals.

Actually, law enforcement in most of the nations favored by expats is on a par with the US, though there is not all of the technical outs for the bad guys.  Most of those nations laws are based on English common law, just as ours.  But, they have not let lawyers get out of hand, like they have here.

As for your reference to raids with MP-5's, in other countries, they say a picture is worth a thousand words.  So, here are two to think about.

         This is how we practice Justice in America.

         But, we don't stop with MP-5's.

 

[Action-America]

Centurion2000:  When the government of the United States destroys the freedoms that were originally associated with being a citizen of the United States then the value of being an American citizen drops to nothing.

Willie Green:  If you truly believe that, then LEAVE. And don't let the door hit you in the @$$.

It seems that Willie can't seem to make up his mind.  Now he is saying leave.  In post 4 he said:

Willie Green:  They oughta be tarred, feathered and sentenced to 20 years hard labor on a chain gang busting big rocks into little pebbles.

It seem that his envy of the wealthy has him so confused that he can't think straight.  But, we've known that for a long time.

 

[BADROTOFINGER]

Why would you assume that?

MacArthur was GOP -- a staunch conservative.

I didnt assume that. You are using quotes from great Americans to excoriate those who seek freedom, and attempting to use them in a context that helps your case, and it is a faulty context at that. You claimed that tax evaders who renounce their citizenship should be tarred, feathered, then imprisoned, then use quotes to make your case instead making it yourself. In the context of this argument as well as the side you have taken in it, the 'vigiliant preservation' MacArthur advocates would seem to be facist statist intent on forcing thier way on free people, rather than free people seeking to preserve their own freedom.

I take great pride in my citizenship too, by the way. I think that MacArthur would be disgusted by the fact that Americans have had to abandon their country to live up to its creed...JFK

[RWG]

So your citizenship in this country is a matter of dollars? If all who had left to avoid the taxes you pay, how much less would you pay? Just after the 4th think about how many gave the ultimate gift to insure their freedom and then once they get a few bucks they leave to where they can keep it without giving any sacrifice whatsoever. Those scum ought to be hunted down and shamed for life.

[B. A. Conservative]

You are a hypocrite. It is their money and the state is not taxing them fairly or equally by any reasonable standard. Where they go or what their reasons are for escaping a form of tryanny or what other form of tyranny they may choose in replacement, are not the business of the state and certainly not yours. Freedom is the right to make individual choices and act on them.

Conservatives have some rethinking to do about using the power of the state to control morality and the limiting of the conduct of individuals where no injury occurs to others. If government lived within the Constitution, all of these arguments that some activities cost other taxpayers money would be completely spurious.

[Hostage]

I personally know several people who have emigrated and I can assure you they met their responsibilities by paying their taxes before leaving.

They are not slimey and they not irresponsible. They simply want to simplify their circumstances and have a chance of a less stressful life in retirement.

Some made small but comfortable fortunes in international trade such as writing contracts to ship tires from Italy to St. Petersburg Russia, a perfectly legitimate transaction with absolutely no benefit provided by the USA.

After considering the perilous paths of financial tax codes and slim privacy afforded by the IRS, our government workers in the USA having set up an impossible obstacle course that nearly everyone cannot complete, those that choose to emigrate should signal our legislators that we have succeeded in building a Tower of Tax Babel. To demonize those that leave is juvenile and reckless.

The remedy is to create an environment of financial freedom and opportunity by "killing and running a stake through the heart of the present tax code" to quote Steve Forbes.

[Willie Green]

Americans have had to abandon their country to live up to its creed...

Poppycock. Nobody's forcing these vermin into exile.
The tax-cheats and deadbeats renounce their citizenship voluntarily.

[Willie Green]

To demonize those that leave is juvenile and reckless.

No, it's "calling a spade a spade".

[Hostage]

Yeah, sure. So you call people that pay their taxes and emigrate to a better life "slimey and irresponsible".

Uh-huh.

[Centurion2000]

So your citizenship in this country is a matter of dollars?

No, please read all of the above posts. Citizenship is a matter of freedoms. Recently, the value of citizenship in the US has dropped quite a bit thanks to some of the new acts in congress.

[steve-b]

Nope; it is the current regime in Washington that mocks the Founders at every turn.

[steve-b]

I categoricly reject the premise [that private property is an essential element of liberty].

Da, comrade!

[FatherTorque]

Well call me a slimy whatever then, because when my 401k reaches a level that I have in mind, I will be looking for a place to go to keep the feds sticky little hands off of my money.

I see no reason to be forced to work until I'm 65 just so all the money I have saved up won't get shredded in taxes. If that means giving up my U.S. citizenship, so be it.