Posted on 07/06/2002 7:39:09 PM PDT by vannrox
Then why are you bitching about it ? Did you and Willie forget about the freedom of movement that we are all supposed to have ??
IF they renounce their citizenship then let them go and treat them exactly like we would a native of their adopted land.
And btw .... the US is worth trying to fix but it looks like the system is going to have to come down in a screaming train wreck before it gets fixed.
If you haven't put your own a$$ on the line defending this country then you better think twice about where you get off telling me to get the f@#$ out of my country. I've paid for my right to b*tch about it in blood, sweat and tears.
Those are just a few. But, it demonstrates the type of mostly stable countries where most American expats are investing and/or living. Also, most of those countries, with one notable exception, rate higher on the various freedom scales than the good ole US of A.
You will note that most (though not all) of those countries have quite stable governments. Several are major countries. Others are part of the British Commonwealth. Yet others are long-standing island paradises. When did you ever hear of a coup in Tahiti, the Caymans or Bermuda?
Trinidad and Tobago is very stable and English speaking. Even though they have a coup every 20 years or so, their coups have never resulted in a single death or significant change in policy. In fact, the people even have coup parties for a few days. The last time there was a coup, they didn't even stop the soccer playoff that was going on just across the Green from Red House (their congress). I felt much safer walking alone on the streets of Port of Spain than on the streets of Los Angeles, Kansas City or Chicago. Oh yes. It's out of the hurricane path, too.
Belize is a very stable, English speaking member of the Commonwealth, that has been independent from Britain since 1981. Property is still reasonably low priced, both on the mainland and beachfront island properties. The cost of living in Belize is about 20% to 25% of what it costs to live in the US. For those who want to go back and forth to the US, there are several flights every day to the US and it's only 2 hours from Houston or Miami. It also offers the longest coral reef and the greatest variety of dive sites in this hemisphere. The people are wonderful and again, I felt safer there than in US cities.
I did include Panama, because some wealthy Americans, who are still here, put a portion of their money in Panama, because of the extreme secrecy of Panamanian Private Interest Foundations and the fact that it will be very difficult for the US government to make such vehicles illegal, without adversely affecting other foundations that they want to protect. Panama also has a very large expat community that helps fund the nation, so regardless of who is running the country, it behooves them to protect those expats.
I included Cuba, because there is tons of money being made there by Europeans, while US citizens are prohibited from such investments. It may be considered risky. But, most investors in Cuba only invest a small portion of their wealth there. Most investors do believe, however, that whoever is invested there when Castro dies, will soon find themselves extremely wealthy. But, that will certainly not include any American citizens.
Nevis is primarily a banking center. It the smaller of the two islands that form the single nation of Nevis and St. Kitts. Nevis has very little commerce, other than banking. St. Kitts, on the other hand, has a small banking sector and more exports. Neither seems to offer enough to attract Americans to live there, although they do offer a very good economic citizenship program. Until recently, Nevis was one of the very best banking centers for privacy. But, last year, they did make some concessions to the totalitarian OECD. Even so, they still rank quite high as a banking center.
Notice also, that to US citizens, even high-tax jurisdictions like Canada and the United Kingdom are considered havens. That is because they don't tax the offshore income of their citizens, like the US does. But, the Inland Revenue of the UK is taking lessons from the IRS, so the UK may not last long as a haven for Americans. After all, most wealthy expats are more concerned about privacy than taxes.
The best general advice seems to be to spread your wealth around, thus eliminating the possibility of losing everything due to a single event. But, that only works if you are not a US citizen. Remember, as a US citizen, your money isn't safe anywhere in the world, if the government wants it.
For more information, check out Escape Artist and Sovereign Society as good starting places. Sovereign Society offers a great report on Second Passports. I just got the latest updated version a month or so ago. It was $99 and well worth it, if you are considering going offshore or just getting a second passport for safety reasons.
I hope this helps.
No. Actually this would only be appropriate for the people who wrote and enforce the present US tax code. Equality can be defined and debated from several viewpoints. But when 5% pay 52% of the taxes and 50% pay 4% of the taxes, that is not equality. And those who take their money and run should be applauded. It opens the door to freedom wider for us all. As for imprisoning people for avoiding the payment of unjust taxes, that is the kind of thinking that will result in gun barrel solutions. And my guess is that those in the 5% can afford bigger guns and more ammunition.
The only thing that's "obvious" is that you place little value on American citizenship.
The English language does not contain an invective of sufficient strength to adequately describe the vermin who renounce their citizenship.
I have to agree with you there. The taxes in the US are way too high. This tax law, by the way, is outrageous. What business does the US govt have taxing someone for TEN YEARS after they've left america and renounced their citizenship??
Also, the US is one of the only countries in the world that taxes its citizens' WORLDWIDE earnings. Practically every other country in the world only taxes those monies earned in the country. After all, why should the US govt take a third of money I earn in europe or someplace else? Its outrageous.
What some of these critics don't understand is that america isn't a chunck of land or a flag...its an ideology. Namely, its an ideology of individual liberty, individual responsibility, and a limited, republican form a government. When the US govt becomes hostile to those ideals, IT is the one that is un-American...not various folks who flee to friendlier waters (those folks are, by my definition, true americans...not just mindless nationalists)
Cowards who soil the graves of those who died to win and preserve our freedom.
Property is liberty, you missed the point entirely.
I didn't miss the point.
I categoricly reject the premise.
No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation.
-- Douglas MacArthur
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.
-- Thomas Paine
I am starting AROTC next semester with plans to committ for a scholarship (which means 4-8 years of active duty) barring unforseen circumstances such as my potential choice of a 2nd major keeping me in school too long (Biology, I'm a CS major now).
Indeed, but you have to ask a certain set of questions before you consider them some randian hero. (1) do they in fact seek freedom? (2) are the freedoms they seek availible to those that are in the working and middle classes of the nation they are moving to? Look at Mexico, Bill Gates would be as free as he wants to because his money would buy it, but the average person would still live under the Socialist hellhole that is the FR of Mexico. (3) is the nation they are moving to even a free nation? If they move to any Western nation other than Switzerland they are automatically hypocrites. (4) are they even moving away because of money or less accountabilitiy? Take Arthur Andersen for example, they're reincorporating in the Bahamas from what I hear. That's not because they want more "freedom" it's because they don't want to take the risk that the local equivalent of the AG or DA isn't going to go in and bust them for corporate fraud. Oh and do you know what the law enforcement can be like in places like the Bahamas? Guys going in with MP-5s and various other automatic weapons and simply gunning down criminals.
When the government of the United States destroys the freedoms that were originally associated with being a citizen of the United States then the value of being an American citizen drops to nothing.
What some of these critics don't understand is that america isn't a chunck of land or a flag...its an ideology. Namely, its an ideology of individual liberty, individual responsibility, and a limited, republican form a government. When the US govt becomes hostile to those ideals, IT is the one that is un-American...not various folks who flee to friendlier waters (those folks are, by my definition, true americans...not just mindless nationalists)
D@^^n! I wish I had said that!
You hit the nail on the head. We must remember that this country was founded on the ideals of individual liberty, individual responsibility, and a limited, republican form a government. It is, as you so aptly pointed out, those ideals, that is the true America, not a physical piece of land or a flag. When freedom-loving Americans are forced to flee their homeland, due to a government that has become hostile to those ideals, they take the true America with them. It is that same spirit and desire to be free of government oppression that led our founding fathers to flee similar oppression in England. The only difference between then and now is the name of the oppressive King.
As B. A. Conservative pointed out, "those who take their money and run... open the door to freedom wider for us all." The actions of today's expatriates may just keep the rest of us from having to make even more radical decisions in the future. In other words, their actions, in defense of the American ideal, may just force our elected officials to stop their unpatriotic attacks on liberty and freedom and start acting like Americans, by passing laws that embody the true spirit that is America, thus opening the door to freedom that they are now so intent on closing.
Either way, the actions of today's expats are much more representative of the ideal that is America, than are the actions of our elected representatives, who only seek to subvert that ideal, in furtherance of their own power over the voters.
And if there were a country more free than ours, we should all consider the options of moving there against the difficulty of changing the laws of our country.
The question isn't IF there is such a country, but WHICH one is best. The USA, which rated number one in ALL freedom surveys for many years, now rates between 7 and 15, depending on which survey you read. Even more interesting is that in most of those studies, the US is not that far ahead of Russia. Several of the countries above the US in those surveys are among the countries favored by expats.
For more on some of the favored countries, see post #22.
Cowards who soil the graves of those who died to win and preserve our freedom.
If anyone in this equation is soiling the graves of those who died to win and preserve our freedom, it is almost all of the Democrats and a good portion of the Republicans in the House and Senate, not to mention our immediate past President and our current President. By attacking the freedom and liberty that is the basis of all that truly is America, it is our elected officials who do the most shameful dishonor to the patriots, past and present, who fought and sometimes died to win and preserve that very freedom and liberty that they now seek to destroy.
Those who are leaving are doing a lot more to preserve freedom and liberty than anyone in Congress, except Congressman Ron Paul.
It's a shame that so many are leaving in droves for this reason. I think the worst part about the tax laws (and there are many very bad parts) is the death tax.
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