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One of Apostles was a woman, Church is told
The Times (UK) ^
| July 06, 2002
| Our Religion Correspondent
Posted on 07/05/2002 7:21:05 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: goldenstategirl
I certainly appreciate your query. I have tried to break
myself of jumping on theology/religion threads on FR b/c
so often it descends into uncharitable spectacle for
our atheist/agnostic/other friends. I am usually among the guilty. So, having indulged myself on this point, I'm going to simply leave it at the link for anyone interested.
However, the link I provided to 'Christians for Biblical
Equality' has excellent online articles that deal with
specific passages, exegesis, the hermeneutical presuppositions of both 'camps' on the issue, etc. Also,
there are well-researched, scholarly texts available for sale. Among them are: Aida Spencer Besacon's "Beyond the Curse," which is probably one of the most thoroughgoing in its Scriptural analysis of both OT and NT relevant passages.
If I'm not mistaken, the Evangelical Theological Society
either online and certainly in back issues (a list of backlisted editions of their 'Review' and articles is available) have had contributors deal with various texts
and pericopes relating to the role and ecclesial offices
of women in the New Testament/Apostolic era Church.
Blessings & Peace!
To: PresbyRev
I understand :-) Thanks for the resources. I'll take a look.
To: aculeus
Just one woman? If we are going to re-write history let's do it correctly (as in politically correct). I have newly discovered evidence that there was an African-American Apostle also.......
43
posted on
07/05/2002 10:24:11 PM PDT
by
arm958
To: B Knotts
This smells an awful lot like the Anglicans trying to justify their priestesses after the fact. There are many scholars outside the Anglican tradition (i.e. Protestant Arminians among others) who also regard Junia as a female Apostle. As far as this whole Junia is Joana thing, I'm not privy to evidence to speak authoratively on.
In another Scripture, Paul mentions two laborers with him in the gospel, "Priscilla and Aquilla" (a husband and wife team). It is notable that Paul mentions Priscilla first, possibly hinting that she is in a more visible role in ministry than her husband.
Furthermore, history is replete with examples of women that have been used mightily by God in ministry; among them, Catherine Booth and Amy Carmichael.
When I try to speak to some Reformed brethren concerning Scripture that describes God's relational nature to His creation, the answer that is always thrown back at me "God is Sovereign" and "you can't limit His Sovereignty", usually without making a meaningful attempt to deal with the text of Scripture. Well, why can't I say here on the issue of women in ministry, "God is Sovereign." "Who are you to tell God who he can choose or not choose?" If they direct me to 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 or 1 Timothy 2:11-15, I can just reply, "You can't understand what God is saying there. That's a mystery. God is sovereign." Of course, I would never give an answer that didn't take into account Scripture, but if it's good for the goose, why not for the gander?
To: aculeus
Instead of Junia, maybe they meant Junior, as in St. Junior.
45
posted on
07/05/2002 10:30:22 PM PDT
by
Consort
To: goldenstategirl
Wasn't familiar with the discussion. In looking at the Greek text of Romans 16:7 I think the argument turns on:
[1] Is Iounian a female or male?;
[2] the meaning of the prepositional phrase "en tois apostolois";
[3] and whether "apostolois" in this context means "sent ones" as opposed to the office of apostle.
Whatever the conclusions, I hardly think this opens the office of bishop to women -- hard to meet the "husband of one wife" requirement [1 Tim. 3:2].
My take at this point is that if Junian/Junia is a female she was a woman of note as was Prisca/Priscilla [2 Timothy 4:19] who with her husband Aquuila helped Apollos to understand the Scriptures.
Thanks for the ping!
46
posted on
07/05/2002 10:31:30 PM PDT
by
drstevej
To: tellw
I think the justification for a celibate priesthood is greater than the justification for an all male priesthood. There are no physical limitations that can keep women from a priestly vocation.What justification? There's no Sriptural justification for the former, or possibly the latter.
To: EternalVigilance; Claud; dadwags; SoothingDave; al_c; Notwithstanding; JHavard; Havoc; ...
Looks to me like someone with an ecclesiastical political agenda in search of scriptural justification to back it up. ya think..LOL
thought you all would like to weigh on on this ..a little publicty for the NEW PC NIV??
48
posted on
07/05/2002 10:33:59 PM PDT
by
RnMomof7
To: PresbyRev
No sale rev!
49
posted on
07/05/2002 10:36:36 PM PDT
by
RnMomof7
To: skemper
Good exegesis. Saved my a post.
50
posted on
07/05/2002 10:37:25 PM PDT
by
razorbak
To: razorbak
1 Timothy 3:1 ΒΆ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
51
posted on
07/05/2002 10:42:50 PM PDT
by
razorbak
To: Askel5
You got a problem with Kings that fancy themselves Popes? You got a problem with popes who fancy themselves gods.
To: aculeus
Help me out here. Biblical scholars say that the Resurrection never happened, but that Joanna/Junia was a witness of the Resurrection, who received a sex change in the KJV. Have I got it all right?
53
posted on
07/05/2002 11:43:08 PM PDT
by
Dajjal
To: RnMomof7
I agree, no sale. When asked for scripture to back up his position, he like all the others of his persuasion, give you everything but. No chapter and verse, no sale.
54
posted on
07/06/2002 12:02:02 AM PDT
by
A6M3
To: Antoninus
Wasn't it Saint Henry VIII, the founder of the Anglican Charch, who translated the Sermon on the Mount thusly: "Blesses is he who divorces his wife and marries another and then another and then another"?
To: aculeus
Although Jerome, regarded as the most important religious scholar of that time, considered Junia to be a woman, subsequent translations in the Middle Ages and the King James Bible changed her name to the male Junias.
I don't know what KJV Bible Professor Bauckham has been using, but my Dake's Annotated has Junia in it, not Junias.
I'm not going through the boxes of books I've got to find one of my older KJV Bibles right now.
I believe the man is a little late to the show myself.
"Remember, Bauckham, it's not a lie if you believe it."
To: Grig
Urban legend debunked by many, including several Protestants, many moons ago.
To: arm958
I have newly discovered evidence that there was an African-American Apostle alsoWasn't he the one who used to fly around the pyramids?
To: Dajjal
Help me out here. Biblical scholars say that the Resurrection never happened, but that Joanna/Junia was a witness of the Resurrection, who received a sex change in the KJV. Have I got it all right? LOL -- great point!
60
posted on
07/06/2002 3:08:17 AM PDT
by
maryz
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