VOUCHERS: THE PARENT TRAP

TORCH, TEXAS EAGLE FORUM | MARCH 1999 | CATHY ADANS

[Twodees]

RD, how is this a win for "our side"? Our goal when we voted for Reagan and later for the republican overthrow in Congress was to abolish the federal Department of Education, not to chip away at the iron fist of control over our kids' futures with a shell game like this voucher idea. A giant win for our side would be to get the dismantling of the DoEd back into the national discourse again. Vouchers are too little, too late as well as being a total pig in the poke. The only place vouchers could work are at the county property tax level. Why then is this an issue for Congress? If you want vouchers in your county, get to work and get the provision adopted. Congress critters don't want this to be addressed at the level of county property taxes because it will leave out everyone who is currently freeloading anyway. That's how it should be: if you pay property taxes, you can get relief of those taxes in proportion to how much tuition you pay a private school or in proportion to how much county property tax is spent per student in the county schools. that this is not what is being discussed by the politicians should tell you something. It should tell you that they have another welfare scam in mind.

[summer]

Well, maybe the state has suggested it to parents -- ask that the private school test the kids. But, still, it is certainly not required. In addition, the FL link I gave clearly indicates the state does not oversee accrediting of any private school. So, maybe Gov Bush is merely saying here that the state is suggesting testing (but, again, I can assure you that is not required in any private school), and, the state does require the private schools accepting vouchers to meet some standards from accrediting agencies (but, again, the state does not oversee these agencies, and this may be another reason few private schools will accept vouchers). But, very interesting letter! Thanks. :)

[summer]

Shapiro stated that private school students in Florida are not required to take the statewide assessment exam. While this is technically true
Starwind, see my reply to capecodder above...

[Twodees]

Why are we willing to allow the choice to be between vouchers or nothing? How do vouchers for low income families work? If a low income family isn't paying taxes anyway, how do they get a tax break? It sounds like a welfare scam to me, rather than what the word "voucher" implies.

[summer]

capecodder, In light of the date of this letter -- April 199, which is only 4 months after Gov. Bush first took office as governor -- it may well be that he was initially planning to require the voucher private school students to take state assessments, but, after thinking about it more, dropped that requirement. It seems to me this is what happened, because I know the students are not required to do this at all in FL.

[summer]

Twodees, I'll flag you on something so you can learn more.

[summer]

April 199,= April 1999,

[summer]

I know the students are not required to do this at all in FL.

And, the reason I know this, above, is because it is something the Dem leaders tried hard to make an issue out of -- there no "accountability" in these private schools, to which Gov. Bush has responded: the parents regulate these schools. I will post a recent NYT letter written by Gov Bush, where he said something to that effect again.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Only the liberals and libertarians want public schools and the lifestyles they teach.

I was not aware that libertarians (or even the Libertarian party) supported "public schools." Would you care to point towards something that supports that statement?

[Twodees]

Allright, but please don't put me back on your Jeb Bush swoonfest ping list, OK?

[summer]

In this recent letter to the NYT editor, 2002, Gov Bush clearly states the parent is the one responsible for monitoring the private school:


Florida's School Choice [Jeb's Letter to the Editor, NYT]

[summer]

Thanks for your kind words on all the work I do to help educate people on this forum. I appreciate it. And, I greaatly enjoy reading the hundreds of informative article yoiu post as well.

[summer]

Thanks for your kind words on all the work I do to help educate people on this forum. I appreciate it. And, I greatly enjoy reading
the hundreds of informative articles you post as well.

[summer]

In short, no, don't worry - you are not on any ping list.

[summer]

From the above NYT letter from Gov. Bush, June 2002:

...Her story also refutes the suggestion that the progress of students in private schools is not "monitored." It is monitored every day by parents like Ms. Marsh who clearly can be trusted to make the best choices for their special-needs children.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Vouchers go to parents. Not the schools. Therefore, there can be no government involvement - separation of church and state, remember?

I have to disagree. There is absolutely no legal principle that I am aware of that prevents the Federal government from imposing any sort of condition they wish on schools that wish to receive Federal money. And merely because the parents will be "spending" it doesn't make it any less the Federal government's money.

How about tax credits for private secondary school education? The cynical side of me thinks that there are some "conservatives" who merely want a government entitlement to a private school education for their children.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Your half right. It is isn't cash, but it becomes my paper.

Nonsense. Do you think that the Federal govenrment will hand out literally hundreds of millions of dollars and will refrain from imposing conditions as to how it is spent?

[summer]

Re your post #170 --

Allright, but please don't put me back on your Jeb Bush swoonfest ping list, OK?

BTW, I am sorry I snapped at you in my previous reply. I try to laugh off comments like yours, above.

But, sometimes it does bother me, because IMO, your comment shows a bias against me because I am a woman -- if I do hard work, research and write, it has to be denigrated to "swoonfest" status all because: I am a woman and the governor is a man.

If I was a guy, would you say that all my work is a "gay fest"? Or, would you tell me I should get try to get a job as a campaign manager?

Maybe something for you to think about. Maybe not...

[summer]

The cynical side of me thinks that there are some "conservatives" who merely want a government entitlement to a private school education for their children...

I think there are many people who would agree with you on that one. So long as these vouchers remain in the hands of the poor, low income, disabled, or for failing schools only, then, your claim is a tougher sell. But, if the whole system drastically changes, you might suddenly find a lot more people oppose it.

[mafree]

I do agree that the choice shouldn't be between vouchers and nothing, but there aren't enough people really dedicated to reforming the public schools and making sure children/their families are serious about learning. Too many of those who get paychecks from the public school system seem not to care if things improve or not. The few of us outside the system who care only have a limited amount of time or resources to do anything. In a way, vouchers have helped many of the people who fall in the latter category.