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Intelligent Design Is Creationism in a Cheap Tuxedo
Physics Today ^ | July 1, 2002 | Adrian L. Melott

Posted on 07/01/2002 7:25:44 AM PDT by aculeus

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To: Doctor Stochastic
Sorry, I'm exhausted from still being in the midst of moving chaos. Am house/dog sitting to save some $ for the trip home and I just have

NO CLUE what you mean about

aspiring to write for ER????

Blessings,

81 posted on 07/01/2002 10:10:51 AM PDT by Quix
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To: laredo44
From Tigger's navel lint.
82 posted on 07/01/2002 10:11:57 AM PDT by Quix
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To: laredo44
Theists would say that God didn't "come from" anywhere.

What does that mean?

Time and space didn't exist until God created them. Since God existed before time and space, the concepts don't really apply to Him.

83 posted on 07/01/2002 10:12:09 AM PDT by jtw99
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To: Dimensio
Changing probably more often when political winds allow new data to be accepted more at face value. . . trouble is the "scientists" don't leave it as that. They have to rush out and make such the new "Holy Grails" and assign Priests and Inquisitors accordingly.

I figure God knows where the "original" atoms came from--if such a term even makes any sense at all in the larger scheme of things from His perspective. I'm comfortable leaving such issues largely to Him . . . except when I have an urge to bother myself with the M2 club.
84 posted on 07/01/2002 10:15:37 AM PDT by Quix
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To: Doctor Stochastic
As the first to gratuitously inject Nazism, you automatically lose (Godwin's Law.)

My experience debating evos is that they attempt to ridicule arguments against which they have no real answers and the relationship between evolution and the totalitarian regimes and systems of the 20'th century is unarguable and unanswerable. The attempts to ridicule such arguments only indicate the intellectual bankruptcy of the evos.

I once even gave the geniuses on talk.origins an opportunity to see if they could even distinguish the rantings of Uncle Adolph from those of Chuck Darwin, and they couldn't do it:

Darwin/Hitler Test

This is an old talk.origins archive post. Basically, I had challenged the talk.origins crew (bandarlog) to see if they could tell the difference between ideological writing samples from the famous racist and evolutionist, Chuck Darwin, and the famous racist and evolutionist, Adolf Hitler. A champion (Pflanze) from amongst the bandarlog arose to take up the challenge:

Subject: Re: Darwin/Hitler Test
From: medved@access.digex.net (Ted Holden)
Date: 1997/05/11
Message-ID: <3375fdd4.143923491@newsreader.digex.net>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.publius,alt.fan.splifford,alt.christnet,talk.origins

On 11 May 1997 12:06:52 GMT, cwpf@news.utk.edu (Charles W Pflanze) wrote:

Therefore, here, too, the struggle among themselves arises less from inner aversion than from hunger and love. In both cases, Nature looks on calmly, with satisfaction, in fact. In the struggle for daily bread all those who are weak and sickly or less determined succumb, while the struggle of the males for the female grants the right or opportunity to propagate only to the healthiest. And struggle is always a means for improving a species' health and power of resistance and, therefore, a cause of its higher development.

>This is more likely Darwin's work. Anyone doing experimental or
>developmental work in biology knows and uses all the the above
>observations. What's the big deal?

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace the savage races throughout the world...

>This is more likely Hitler's work. Now we read about civilized races
>exterminating "savage races."


My reply:

Congratulations, you have earned an incredible distinction for yourself; you can tell your grandchildren that you were the first to flunk the official alt.fan.splifford Hitler/Darwin test. In years to come, after evolutionism has been laughed to scorn and is no longer taught in civilized nations, your name will be famous. Textbooks will note that, once it became obvious that even a genius such as Charles Pflanze could not tell the difference between Darwin's writings and those of Adolf Hitler, it was pretty much all over but the shouting.

85 posted on 07/01/2002 10:16:23 AM PDT by medved
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To: FreeperJr.
What does your post have to do with the debate at hand, Intelligent Design Vs Natural selection? Please stay on topic.
86 posted on 07/01/2002 10:16:48 AM PDT by TightSqueeze
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To: jlogajan
Again, what difference does it make who the designer is? Intelligent Design theory is about the design, not the designer. Your real problem is that it allows for the possibility of a God. It's okay. You can admit it.
87 posted on 07/01/2002 10:16:52 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: FreeperJr.
You make an interesting case, but I don't think that's quite what he had in mind ;)
88 posted on 07/01/2002 10:17:44 AM PDT by general_re
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To: laredo44
It means that God didn't come from anywhere. To come from a place implies both space, and time. Any theist will tell you God created both. It is hard for humans to comprehend of any entity which does not require a beginning. That is no reason to assume such an entity cannot "exist" for lack of a better word.
89 posted on 07/01/2002 10:18:16 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: TightSqueeze; Tribune7
Christianity is a greater factor than being a scientist

Learn from the best... learn from the Intelligent Designer himself. That makes sense.

And this from Tribune7:
Issac Newton, by all accounts, was a full-blown religious fanatic.

must mean that I am in pretty good company.

QED

90 posted on 07/01/2002 10:19:04 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer
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To: jlogajan
You sound so arrogantly certain that 0% of Creationists would consider using Intelligent Designer as a charitable inoffensive alternate label.

Of course, there are those determined to be offended regardless. There's likely little hope for such.
91 posted on 07/01/2002 10:19:19 AM PDT by Quix
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To: Junior
I was being sarcastic. Which scientists have worked out the details of the origin of the atomic structure? I would be fascinated to read it, and learn of the empirical scientific experiments and objective facts used to support it.
92 posted on 07/01/2002 10:19:36 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Because atoms exist within space-time. Everything that exists within space-time comes into being at some point along this continuum.
93 posted on 07/01/2002 10:20:24 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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Comment #94 Removed by Moderator

To: TightSqueeze
In other words you have nothing but ad homenim assertions and ad hoc conclusions based on sparce data? I see. Thanks for explaining it for me.
95 posted on 07/01/2002 10:21:12 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: gdani
Given the multiple links you provide to creationist sites, you obviously believe that the universe was created in 6 days, that woman was created from man's rib, that the earth is only about 6,000 years old, that dinosaurs existed in biblical times and that all human life descended from Adam & Eve.

The idea of dinosaurs persisting until recently is the only part of that which you've got right.

96 posted on 07/01/2002 10:21:23 AM PDT by medved
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To: aculeus
Why is it some Evolutionists such as yourself are so insecure in their beliefs, that you must post an article under such an inflammatory title to try and get a rise out of those of us who believe in God and Creationism?

Is it really that hard for you to accept that others may have a different POV than yours, or is there some other driving need to try and make your point more valid by belittling others beliefs?

Seek help.

97 posted on 07/01/2002 10:21:49 AM PDT by usconservative
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To: medved
I ask you: How could anything be stupider or worse than that? What could possibly be worse than professing to believe in such a thing?

Maybe, wasting so much energy, time and bandwidth to refute an idea which you say is ridiculous on its face?

And why have your buns in such an uproar, anyway? Why could it not be that God said 'Abracadabra-Shazzam' --- KA-BOOM! --- and created all the raw material subsequently used by the evolutionary process? Put everything in place - the fundamental laws governing the entire universe, and the energy upon which those laws acted - and simply let it happen. Or is it, as another poster suggested, your entire mental, emotional & spiritual well-being rests on an absolute literal interpretation of a folk-tale which originated long before even rudimentary alphabets? (If that's the case, I would say you have a much more pronounced difficulty than crucifying the efforts of thousands of Ph.D.s -- that being, why in hell would you worship a being which exhibits the worst of human characteristics?)

98 posted on 07/01/2002 10:22:52 AM PDT by Le-Roy
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To: jlogajan
Chrisitans?
99 posted on 07/01/2002 10:23:14 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: jtw99
Time and space didn't exist until God created them.

But he had the capacity to create "time and space." Therefore "time and space" co-existed with God in this pre-"time and space" non-time/non-space. So where did this pre-"time and space" come from?

Cheap monster movies have the monsters growing without eating anything. Cheap religious theories have gods creating matter out of nothing.

Well, if all things need creators, then the creator needs a creator, ad infinitum.

100 posted on 07/01/2002 10:23:14 AM PDT by jlogajan
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