BIG NEWS reported in The Washington Post today, June 23, 2002: Jeb Bush did NOT steal Election 2000

The Washington Post link (no excerpts) ^ | June 23, 2002 | summer; others linked

[summer]

Look at the news sources you are quoting: the Washington Post, and NPR. Doesn't that tell you something?

Yes, it tells me you did not read very carefully.

I also mentioned Dick Morris - a conservative political strtategist. And, if you read the chapter in his new book about this, like I did, you will see that even he sat up and took note of this local issue in FL. I will post a link for you about it. :)

[summer]

strtategist = strategist

(Although, I should add, that Dick Morris was very kind to Al Gore IMO, as he could have been much more specific in his book. Instead, he slams Gore very gently in comparision to the Miami New Times, and says Gore's mistake in 2000 was not running on his environmental record. It was a bigger mistake than that, however, at least here in FL.)

[summer]

BTW, I just went to your link, and the thread generated absolutely no insight into how the Everglades airport issue might, or might not, have affected Florida voting in Nov., 2000. (It too was written after the election, with the benefit of hindsight.)

If you read the entire article in my post #49 and concluded the above, then, thank goodness you do not work as a political strategisty - you'd be broke in no time! :)!

[summer]

My post #62 was meant for you too. And, you should also read my Jan 9th editorial.

BTW, what is your gripe about looking back and reflecting on what unfolded? "Hindsight" is the one and only way anyone can consider, analyze and understand past events -- you have to look back.

Also, I did not buy any "liberal" spin on this matter, as the liberal spin, for a long time, was: Jeb Bush "stole" this election. Most FL voters know he didn't -- especially the 96,000 voters who voted for Nader... and, may vote for Jeb this November. :)!

[summer]

strategisty = strategist

[summer]

ROTFLAO!!!!!!!!!! I do recall when you spoke about that.

Thank you, Angelique! I'm so glad you posted here! :)!

[summer]

Thanks for the bump here, Victoria! :)

[summer]

You don't suppose Gore's position on the Elian Gonzalez debacle, or taxes, or Social Security, or gun control, or National Defense had anything to do with his defeat do you?

No. I don't. Not with respect to Soth FL and the FL voters in that region, located near Homestead Airforce Base and the Everglades.

BTW, I'm sure I'm not the first one to tell you this, Friedrich:

ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL.

[summer]

:)!

[summer]

Soth= South

[summer]

This part of the Washington Post article rings especially true, and I am wondering if they talked to the writer of the Miami New Times article linked in my post #49 -- because that article describes the fall out of trust that happened between Gore and the FL environmentalists, people who should have been his supporters. Yet, the breach was so bad prior to the election in Nov 2000, that Gore could not even hold at a rally because of potential protests from these very environmental groups. Here's an excerpt from the WP article link about that meeting between Gore and environmentalists:

...But when they [Gore's people] asked [the FL environmentalists] whether Gore would face protesters if he held a rally in the Everglades, the environmentalists coolly replied that they could not control their members.

"Gore spilled blood for these people for eight years," Berger said. "Where was the trust?"

Karsten Rist, a Tropical Audubon Society activist, said he was stunned by the Gore team's trust-us approach.

"I remember Katie saying Gore would really feel hurt if his own people didn't trust him," he recalled. "It was a strangely sentimental and unrealistic statement."

So Gore never made that trip to the Everglades. But three days before the election, Nader was in Miami bellowing about the airport. "Al Gore is waffling as usual," he shouted. Nader also sent a letter to environmentalists around the state, saying Gore had cut deals to allow "major development around this national treasure." Nader got more than 96,000 votes in Florida.

Penelas [mayor of Miami], meanwhile, did not make a single appearance for Gore in the fall of 2000. He was virtually invisible during the post-election controversy, offering no objections when Miami-Dade election officials shut down the manual recount that Gore had requested....

The request by Gore's people for "trust" from the FL environmentalists and others concerned about this matter is incredible, in light of the fact the local and state DEMS were constantly on the WRONG side of this issue. So -- "trust"? What's to "trust" when the Dems (except Clinton) were never on the side of The People in this local/federal fight???

[Friedrich Hayek]

summer,in order for your thesis to be true, you would have to show that there was a massive shift of environmental votes from Al Gore to Ralph Nader, or alternatively, that huge numbers of Gore voters stayed at home.

Let's look at the numbers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections/2000/results/whitehouse/

In Florida, Ralph Nader actually did poorer than he did nationwide. Nationally, Nader garnered 2.68% of the vote, while in Florida, Nader earned only about half that many, 1.63%.

That hardly looks like a massive shift of environmental votes from Gore to Nader.

How about the second question, did Florida environmental voters stay home on election day?

Again, the answer is no. Voter turnout in Florida in 2000 was 70%, higher even than 67% recorded in the 1996 election (see http://election.dos.state.fl.us/online/voterpercent.shtml).

Furthermore, in 2000, 400 thousand more votes were cast for Al Gore than were cast for Bill Clinton's during his "Landslide" four years ealier (2,912,253 vs. 2,546,870).

Nope, environmentally minded voters did not stay home on election day 2000, and they did not cast their votes for Ralph Nader. The Everglades airport is a non-issue.

[summer]

summer, in order for your thesis to be true...

It's not "my" thesis. I wrote in my editorial about actual events. Dick Morris also wrote about actual events. Read Dick Morris' book. I don't even know Dick Morris, but it's kind of amazing that he, and media sources as diverse as a local magazine and a national radio show (and me on my computer) -- and Dick Morris -- all say the same basic thing: there was an explosive issue here. Al Gore ignored it. Voters walked away from him. And, BTW, folks -- that's how one LOSES an election!

I'm thinking now Al Gore has been in denial on this as much as you are now, and that's why it tool the WP over a year to hit the keyboard.

[summer]

Not only that, but the Everglades remains a huge issue -- only now, it is a HUGE feather in the cap of one GOP GOv Jeb Bush and one GOP President GW. Again, I realize: you are not in FL. Just as I could not possibly tell you how impoirtant or unimporant a local issue mught be in your state.

But, if you are at all astute, you might be curious at how dedicated GW and Jeb were to the environmental issues here in FL. Could it be that one FL gov understands the voters in his own state? A state where there are more registered Dems than GOP voters? And, a state where independents like myself are the ones who actually decided every election? I am not an expert on politics, but, I think our governor and his brother the president recognize a whole lot more than Al Gore -- and you -- do about FL voters.

In addition, Jeb and GW did a great job on this issue. Dems may be just starting to wake up to the damage this is causing Dems...

[summer]

I can tell by your post #72 you did not read my editorial yet. Nor the posts on that thread. I have already been through this. And, you, like the WP here, are late. I posted back in January on this, along with hundreds of others. Where were you, news junkie??? :)

[summer]

tool = took

[summer]

mught = might

[Friedrich Hayek]

Sorry for crediting this thesis to you, but it seems as though you live and die by it.

Did environmentalists "trust" Al Gore in 2000? I don't know. None of us can read minds. The only question we can answer conclusively is, did Al Gore's environmental record harm him in 2000? The answer is no. See the post above.

The Greens may have hated Al Gore in 2000 but the truth is, they hated George Dubya more. The election did not turn on their votes. The numbers prove it. Argue with the numbers if you don't like the truth.

[summer]

BTW, if you want, you can certainly write to Nathaniel Reed, a conservative, mentioned below, and ask him how he came up with his numbers:

To the White House, by Way of the Everglades

By Michael Grunwald
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 23, 2002; Page A16

HOMESTEAD, Fla. -- Al Gore's people blame the environmentalists, although some admit they didn't think much of Gore's fence-sitting strategy. The environmentalists blame Gore, although some admit to twinges of regret about kneecapping one of the most earth-friendly presidential candidates in history. But both sides agree that in the closest state in the closest election ever, the bizarre swamp politics of the Everglades sent George W. Bush to the Oval Office.

In a presidential race decided by 537 votes in Florida and one in the Supreme Court, there were plenty of tipping points. But the refusal of Democratic candidate Gore to denounce an airport proposed at the edge of the Everglades -- and his subsequent loss of local support to Green Party candidate Ralph Nader -- was certainly one of the bigger ones.

Nathaniel Reed, a prominent South Florida conservationist who served in the Nixon administration, said the airport issue cost Gore "conservatively, at least 10,000 votes." ....

[Friedrich Hayek]

Where were you, news junkie???

I was paying attention to real news not this revisionist nonsense :).