Police now say abductor of 14-year-old Utah girl didn't know he was watched by her sister

AP | June 18, 2002 | RICH VOSEPKA

[Illbay]

I hope the cops continue their lousy track record and are wrong on that one.

Um, what "lousy track record" is that?

[GovernmentShrinker]

I don't see why. Both a (formerly) trusted person and someone helping Elizabeth stage an abduction might use a real or fake handgun during the event.

[Illbay]

When Polly Klaas was abducted--by a common thug in an audacious act--many thought the same way. Turned out they were WRONG. If you're sick enough, desperate enough, you'll do this kind of thing, which is why, in a community like the Smarts', where such horrific crimes are almost unknown, this outrageous kind of thing actually might have worked.

[lady lawyer]

Ahhh. But ruffles and flouncy things have a power and mystery of their own.

[Vinomori]

I respectully disagree. The fact that the sister did not run and tell the parents IMMEDIATELY had many people puzzled. The only thing that had had folks ready to believe why she didn't tell the parents was because of the threats made directly to her by the assailant.

VERY important point. This raises huge questions all over, questions that have been shouted down for days. For days we were told that she sat hypnotized with fear for 2 hours by the threat made to her directly by the gunman without a face. She is 9, she is not 4. Any 9 year old I have ever know would run screaming to parents instantly. Something is not correct here, and it has nothing to do with Mormons.

[Jim Scott]

Thanks to both of you for injecting some reality into the discussion of the Elizabeth Smart abduction case.

The conspiracy-lovers and those who are itching to accuse, condemn and hang one or more family members right now are out in force with all their 'questions' about what a frightened 9-year-old girl saw, should have saw, did, didn't do or should have done. To these folks, the cops are all nincompoops. They have the real scoop on what actually happened you see, based on a 20-second TV clip or a misquoted remark in some rag that they condemn all the time when it supports Democrats. Oh, and didn't that uncle, parent, brother or whoever he was 'look funny' when the TV reporter interviewd him? Yeah, right. There's a clue for ya.

It's not only tiresome but disappointing to see so much of that on FR.

The current rumor/gossip frenzy now so obvious in this case is typical and another demonstation of how human beings love to think the worst and accuse others of the very worse in any situationn that involves the disappearance/death of a child. All with great sympathy and utmost concern for the lost/abducted/murdered child, of course.

I have no opinion on the case as all I know is what I get on a 2-minute TV clip which isn't much and probably wrong. The refusal of both of you to jump to conclusions and to point out some missed facts while withstanding the ridicule and flaming from those who seem to want to kick the possible fate of this young girl around for sport while they casually condemn people they know absolutely nothing about is laudable. Keep up the good work.

[GovernmentShrinker]

I saw that too, and found it a bit puzzling. My guess is that it was an out of context quote. The father may have been saying something like how it really hit home that she was gone when the family gathered together for prayer as usual, and she didn't join them. In the handful of press conferences I've seen on TV, there is a lot of confusion, with reporters yelling out barely audible questions, and someone answering what they thought they heard.

This past weekend, I saw a press conference given by a police spokesman (maybe the police chief). There was long back and forth exchange in which reporters asked about information that had been in the Salt Lake Tribune article and other sources which conflicted with or added to the police accounts. The police spokesman kept answering that the police department had no knowledge of this information, and that from what reporters where saying there seemed to be people out there with additional information that the police would like to have. What he kept forgetting to emphasize was that these were just CLAIMS of information, and that the police had no reason to believe any of it was true. The reporters kept missing this and assuming that the police spokesman was saying that he believed there were people with real information who were deliberately withholding it from the police. The police spokesman kept missing the fact that this was the impression he was leaving with the reporters. The press conference ended with the confusion unresolved.

[TheDon]

Ah? You trust the media, Court TV no less, given their problems with getting the facts straight on this case to date? Hopefully someone connected with the investigation will come out and confirm this report.

I think the media has an effective technique for getting info out of the police. They start rumors about what they want to know, to force the police to come out and clarify the facts. Although often the police may not fall for it. I have seen this several times in this case.

[per loin]

Perhaps the whole story of the girl not immediately running to tell the parents is no longer "operative"? If so, that would mean that the parents waited for several hours before letting the police know that their daughter had been kidnapped at gunpoint. Until a reasonable "official" timeline of that night is released, confusion and speculation will thrive.

Apparently the parents are more content with such widespread confusion and speculation than they are with stating what the truth of the matter might be.

[Neenah]

I trust the media? hahahhahhaha..did I miss you in my life so far? I don't remember our intimate conversations where I confessed this to The Don !!!! LOL

Hey, Don..psssst..as long as WE CAN TRUST NO ONE...let's you and I ask to have FR stop this thread on the case, all threads on the case, cause AIN'T NO ONE TELLING THE TRUTH ! YA, JIS CAINT TRUS NO UN ENI MUR !!

[GovernmentShrinker]

There were two adults in the house. One could easily have been calling police while another (the father) ran over to yell to neighbors for help. It doesn't surprise me that there were a lot of people in the house by the time police got there. The Smarts live on a cul-de-sac, and are probably well-acquainted with several other homes full of people there. Mr. Smart said he immediately went to neighbors telling them Elizabeth was missing and to check on their own children. People one or two doors away are likely to arrive ahead of the police.

There has been some real confusion over the timing of the call to police, stemming from a contradiction between a police "watchlog" which was released to the press, and the consistent statements of police that they believe they were called as soon as Elizabeth was discovered missing. This is an inconsistency in the police account, not in the family's account, and it sounds more like an administrative error than anything else.

[Nita Nupress]

The Smarts, who have daily called on the public to aid them, owe the public an explanation.

I don't think you meant that to sound quite like it did (and maybe I'm being a bit touchy), so this is not directed at you; it's just my opinion and something I wish people would remember.

The Smarts don't owe us diddly squat. Please remember that things may not be as they seem on the surface. The police are obviously keeping a lot of information to themselves, understandably. The other day, I saw where Poised Woman and some others astutely pointed out how this could be a ransom situation, something I hadn't really thought of before. It would certainly put a whole a new interpretation on things we're seeing if there's a complex game of cat & mouse going on among the participants. If this is the case, the Smarts and the SLC police should be saying whatever they deem necessary to get Elizabeth home alive. The opinions and comfort level of people like us are irrelevant. I know most here would probably agree.

If it turns out the Smarts and/or some extended family members are somehow complicit in the "kidnapping," there will be plenty of time for us to sit around and demand explanations for their behavior and throw a public crucifixion party. I mean, it's not like FReepers can sit here and solve the case or anything, and idle speculation serves no useful purpose, IMHO.

The main thing that's bugging me at this point is whether the SLC police are total bumbling idiots (Did they really wait a week to view the hospital tape?!), or whether they're very good at their jobs and fooling all of us.

[mountaineer]

Do you know what light sources were on? Do you know what phase the moon was in and what the sky conditions were like?

No, that's why I asked the question. This has nothing to do with being Mormon, and you know it. I have not passed judgment on anyone in this family or upon any member of your religion, or upon the LDS church itself. As I said yesterday, we would ask the same questions if the family were Baptist, Buddhist or nothin' at all. When you start accusing people who ask reasonable questions of being judgmental, it is clear you don't know the meaning of the word.

[Illbay]

Apparently, a paucity of verifiable facts in the case doesn't preclude your deciding what the parents do or do not think, or what they prefer.

Amazing. Do you do public readings?

[mountaineer]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. We're hearing umpteen different stories, and can't tell which are coming from police, which are reporters' interpretations, conjectures, inventions, etc., or which came from the family. That is why so many things are so puzzling.

[Vinomori]

Huh? Why would Elizabeth have been threatened in the way that MK claimed, i.e. that she should not tell anyone or else she would be hurt, who could Elizabeth tell, if she was going with the abductor????

Excellent point. Don't let this sloppy thinking pass unchallenged. Way to go.

[freedox]

"Ahhh. But ruffles and flouncy things have a power and mystery of their own."

So do red satin things. I always found the description of Elizabeth's red satin pajamas at the time of her abduction somewhat troubling. It suggested to me that there was more to her than the shy, demure, seriousminded child that was being portrayed by friends and family.

[timestax]

The police might be making the SAME mistakes the police made in the JonBonnet case......letting the parents control the everything!!

[per loin]

The Smarts don't owe us diddly squat.

When people go on national TV, night after night, requesting that we give of our time to help them, they incur an ethical debt towards all who do so. That debt, at a minimum is to speak straight forwardly and honestly about why they need our help.

The main thing that's bugging me at this point is whether the SLC police are total bumbling idiots (Did they really wait a week to view the hospital tape?!), or whether they're very good at their jobs and fooling all of us.

I remember similar questions about the DC police in the Chandra case. It turned out that they were total bumbling idiots. I suspect the same to be the case here. I'd guess that you've seen the periodic stories about folks being refused jobs with various police departments because they were too intelligent for the job.