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The Nature of Nurture: How the Environment Can Shape our Genes
Wall Street Journal | June 14, 2002 | Sharon Begley

Posted on 06/15/2002 6:44:53 PM PDT by gore3000

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All typographical errors are mine.
1 posted on 06/15/2002 6:44:54 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: medved; andrewc, phaedrus, tribune7; f.Christian; Patrick Henry; Vade Retro; Nebullis; Junior; BMCDA
Let's see what you all think of this article.
2 posted on 06/15/2002 6:53:29 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gore3000; Orual; aculeus
For some odd reason, the name Lysenko comes to mind.
3 posted on 06/15/2002 6:56:01 PM PDT by dighton
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To: gore3000;crevo_list
Interesting. But, I'm even more interested to know what you think this article implies. (I have my suspicions... :-)
4 posted on 06/15/2002 7:07:00 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: dighton
For some odd reason, the name Lysenko comes to mind.

No, this is not Lysenkoism. In lysenkoism the environment changes the genes. Here there is no change in genes. The human genome (and that of animals of course) adapts to the environment and reacts with it. You notice it all the time. If it is hot, you sweat to cool the body down. Plants are also affected by the environment. If they have a small pot, they will grow small, if they have a big pot, they will grow big. Same for goldfish. This is all part of the marvelous design of the Creator.

5 posted on 06/15/2002 7:12:01 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: jennyp
Interesting. But, I'm even more interested to know what you think this article implies. (I have my suspicions...

I think it clearly implies that you do not need genetic changes in order for organisms to adapt to their environment. The mechanism is already there in the genome to help organisms adapt to their environment. Think about it, you know it is true. For example, people that use their bodies for heavy work have stronger muscles than those who work in an office. Their genes did not change, they did not mutate, the body responded to their needs.

6 posted on 06/15/2002 7:17:58 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gore3000
Thanks for your effort. I only noticed one typo.

As far as the people you address in #2, I doubt most of them understand it.

7 posted on 06/15/2002 7:18:38 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: gore3000
I'm just glad you understood that the environment didn't change the genes.
8 posted on 06/15/2002 7:20:36 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: gore3000
Their genes did not change, they did not mutate, the body responded to their needs.

Within reasonable limits. You can flap your arms all day and all night and your body will not respond by growing flight feathers...

9 posted on 06/15/2002 7:21:42 PM PDT by medved
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To: gore3000;dighton;Orual
Think about it, you know it is true. For example, people that use their bodies for heavy work have stronger muscles than those who work in an office. Their genes did not change, they did not mutate, the body responded to their needs.

Think about it. The more I read creationist nonsense the more bored I get.

10 posted on 06/15/2002 7:24:13 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: gore3000
Yet there is a syndrome of fair complexion, thinner lips, and often green eyes that accompanies red hair. Do the Irish hair genes make their own copper???
11 posted on 06/15/2002 7:25:03 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: medved
You can flap your arms all day and all night and your body will not respond by growing flight feathers...

Try a few jillion years. But you must also be trying to jump up or down trees.

12 posted on 06/15/2002 7:59:47 PM PDT by AndrewC
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13 posted on 06/15/2002 8:00:31 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: gcruse
Do the Irish hair genes make their own copper???

I think you misunderstood the process. Copper allows the breakdown of tyrosine which darkens the tissues.

When there's enough copper in the diet, tyrosine breaks down and melanin darkens the tresses. When copper is in short supply, tyrosine doesn't decompose to yield melanin. New hair then grows in lighter, no matter what the genes say.

But I doubt the traits you noticed in the Irish are due to a lack of copper. After all, Irish policemen are a tradition.

14 posted on 06/15/2002 8:08:22 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
"But I doubt the traits you noticed in the Irish are due to a lack of copper. After all, Irish policemen are a tradition."

LOL

15 posted on 06/15/2002 8:14:17 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: aculeus
Think about it. The more I read creationist nonsense the more bored I get.

I can see why evolutionists are going into denial. Scientific evidence against their theory keeps pouring out from everywhere. Of course thoughtful people already knew that evolution could not be the way organisms adapt to the environment. A few million years are nothing for evolutionists but the environment changes in a matter of hours sometimes, days at other times, and perhaps a few hundred years, so there never was any time for any species to adapt to the environment through genetic change. This experiment gives solid evidence as to how such adaptation occurs.

16 posted on 06/15/2002 9:10:58 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gcruse
Yet there is a syndrome of fair complexion, thinner lips, and often green eyes that accompanies red hair. Do the Irish hair genes make their own copper???

If you read the article, heck if you had just read the title, you would see that the author does not claim that everything an organism does is due to the environment. He does show that organisms are able to adapt to the environment and that there are mechanisms that help organisms adapt to it. Essentially he is saying that organisms are very resilient and robust and able to adapt - without genetic change. But in a way we always knew that. That is the whole idea behind vaccines - to help the organism adapt its immune system to be more resistant to certain illnesses.

17 posted on 06/15/2002 9:18:59 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: medved
You can flap your arms all day and all night and your body will not respond by growing flight feathers...

Ya mean that if you swim all day in the water you will not grow fins? Why Darwinists have been saying that for 150 years. They have been teaching it to kids in schools. Now who would be so nasty as to lie to kids?

18 posted on 06/15/2002 9:23:26 PM PDT by gore3000
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To: gore3000
If you read the article, heck if you had just read the title, you would see that the author does not claim that everything an organism does is due to the environment. He does show that organisms are able to adapt to the environment and that there are mechanisms that help organisms adapt to it. Essentially he is saying that organisms are very resilient and robust and able to adapt - without genetic change. But in a way we always knew that.

Heh, in a way. IOW, it's a trivial point! I was wondering why you went to the trouble of posting this, and I must say I wasn't too surprised to see what it was you thought you'd discovered. Omigod, genes' effects on the body can be subtle! Muscles can grow if they're used a lot! Diet can affect our bodies! Well, that just about nails the coffin for eeeevilution, eh wat?

OK, here's the takeaway lesson from the article: If our bodies couldn't adapt to the environment, we'd all die. But instead we're able to adapt to our changing environments enough to live to procreate another day. You're right: Environments can sometimes change very quickly, in a blink of an eye compared to evolutionary timespans. If our bodies couldn't adapt to a range of environments, we'd simply go extinct. In fact, the vast majority of species that have ever existed, have gone extinct. So in many cases evolution was indeed not fast enough. But of course you claim that it could never be fast enough for any species.

I score that a Y.

19 posted on 06/15/2002 11:14:05 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: gore3000
Nice job. I couldn't find any. OTOH it's almost 2:30 a.m.
20 posted on 06/15/2002 11:31:16 PM PDT by Tribune7
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