Muslim Community Speaks Out

WTLV-12 ^ | 06/14/02 | WTLV-12

[concerned about politics]

Another thread:

Sources: Ernest Kellett, A Short History of Religions. New York: Books for Libraries Press, 1971, P. 343, and Washington Irving, Life of Mahomet. New York: Dutton & Sons, 1911, p. 231.

* On his deathbed, Mohammed said: "Do not fear those who disbelieve, fear me" and called for the conquest of Christianity.

[spokanite]

And even if his church was to fall prey to a suicide bomber it would be his own fault. The media would direct all the blame toward Rev. Vines because of his statements. It's OK for the Muslims to blast (in more ways than one) the Christians, Jews and our nation, but the Christian can't say anything to raise an eyebrow on the Muslim. Remember, we have to be "tolerant" and, a Muslim can do no wrong!

[blackbart.223]

"So you earn your way to heaven only to be perpetually tortured by the presence of these Virgins. Perpetual torture...now that rings a bell...Who could provide eternal torture..."

I wan't to get this right. The muslim who accsends to this level is nagged by seventy females for eternity or is denied access to the former by Satan while in full view of them. If you mean the former you are a misogynist. If you mean the latter you are probably correct. Either way it could be hell

[spokanite]

The Rev. Vines needs our thoughts and prayers. His church needs to hear from us as well. Call or send flowers in support of this man who stands up for what he believes.

[Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek]

I don't have much patience for religious leaders that "defend" their religion by bashing another. It seems oppotunistic to me. I want no part of it. If one wants to comment on the merits of Islam's current moral world view as it affects the public square, that is fair comment. Bashing the founder for what happened, or did not happen, long ago, is not. Heck, non believers could start bashing Christ on some matters in theory.

Non-believers have been bashing Christ on a variety of matters since the beginning... see the commentary in the Talmud for example, or the publications of various "freethinkers". I was raised on a steady diet of Christian bashing by a father who had punted his Catholic heritage in favor of Thomas Paine, Robert Ingersoll, and a variety of militant atheists. It took a careful study of the Bible and the history of the church for me to realize that he, and they, had missed the mark.

Bottom line - - the truth is still a defense against accusations of slander, and if the Muslim mouthpieces really want to "get into it" they will have large doses of what their own holy books contain thrown back in their faces. This should be an interesting dialogue.

[The Great Satan]

Wish I could find the pic of the cardinal high-fiving Arafat after his release from Ramallah -- same guy as in this pic, I think.

[Thumper1960]

Muhammad demanding his followers fear him as opposed to their god, Allah, is instructive.

Islam is a constructed "religion". An oppurtunistic belief system invented by a mentally unstable man and sold to ignorant camel drivers in a desolate region of the Middle East. Muhammad stole what he wished from the Judaic-Christian religion and added what he felt he needed to maintain control of his followers. Muhammad reversed himself many times throughout the Q'uran and attributed the reversals to the "will of Allah". Proclaiming that anyone who dared disagree with Muhammad would be disagreeing with Allah. Therefore, you oppose: you die.

Those who defend Islam and its adherents not only give aid and comfort to a manically driven force bent on destroying Western Culture, they also join the ranks of the "useful idiots" that so blindly assissted the Soviet Union and the Communist International in its attempts to destroy Western Culture.

[Cicero]

It's glaringly obvious that Rev. Vines's statement particularly upsets them because it is true. They don't deny it.

As Muslims have expanded into new areas, they have repeatedly shown a pattern of misrepresentation and falsification followed by violent imposition of their views as soon as they are in a position to enforce them.

The case of Ayesha is typical. While they are in the minority, living in a country where sex with a nine-year-old is considered pedophilia, they would prefer not to talk about the matter publicly. But when they get reach a majority, then it is openly professed as an article of religious faith, and everyone is required to ADMIRE it. What a lovely, romantic relationship between Mohammed and Ayesha! In fact, I recall finding exactly that sentiment in a book I read many years ago--I'm afraid I forget the title.

Needless to say, using Mohammed as a model of virtuous behavior leads to some pretty vicious results, including the habit of multiple wives and concubines, the abuse of women, instant divorce without responsibility, and much more.

Rev. Vines's offense was to talk about these matters publicly, when Muslims in America are still at the stage of being quiet about them. And of course he used the wrong word to describe it, because Muslims find the marriage admirable.

[Righty1]

PC doesn't care about facts. Musslimes know this and use it to undermine us.

[concerned about politics]

Rev. Vines's offense was to talk about these matters publicly,

He didn't. It was at a BAPTIST CONFERENCE.
There was a demon in the mix somewhere.
He had the right to hold a conference with others of his faith. It was for Baptists.

[BibChr]

Post 2 is indeed a terrific find.

Dan
How Can I Know God?

[lizma]

"Islam was founded by Mohammed, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives and his last one was a 9 year old girl."

Works for me.

For further insight into this enlightened culture see Islam and Women.

A whole lot of sick puppyism goin on.

[Map Kernow]

I don't have much patience for religious leaders that "defend" their religion by bashing another. It seems oppotunistic to me. I want no part of it. If one wants to comment on the merits of Islam's current moral world view as it affects the public square, that is fair comment. Bashing the founder for what happened, or did not happen, long ago, is not. Heck, non believers could start bashing Christ on some matters in theory.

Well, I don't have much patience for people who want to curtail Americans' constitutional "free exercise" rights on grounds of good taste. What do you mean---not defend one's religion by "bashing" another? That's the whole point of apologetics: your religion is right and other religions are wrong. That's not "bashing"--that's argument.

Islam's "current world view" is intimately and inextricably tied to the life, actions, and sayings of Mohammed---it always has been throughout the history of Islam. Therefore, your dismissal of commentary on Mohammed as irrelevant to "the merits of Islam's current moral world view as it affects the public square" shows a fundamental ignorance of Islam.

And finally, non-believers "bash" Christ all the time, haven't you noticed? And I haven't heard of anyone telling them they'd better not do so.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Not only that, but a person could be King of England or Pharoah of Egypt at an early age. This was usually followed by being a former King or Pharoah, still at an early age.

You are right.

IMO, this "issue" is a red herring, and it completely misses the point of the actual transgressions of the radical muslims upon the world (as in, currently). The fact is that the average life expectancy up until the 16th century was quite low, around 40 years. So it is not surprising that marriage/intercourse occured at a much earlier age. That this is a topic of disagreement NOW is ludicrous. WHO CARES what may or may not have happened hundreds of years ago. What is significant now is WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. Current grievances are what must be addressed now.

I cannot believe the stupidity of the people who insist upon waging the wars of the past. What next, who was right about exactly when the Earth first cooled? Zealotry on all sides must go.

[Torie]

Most religions have gotten out of the business of bashing others. That is one reason this near atheistic agnostic has a quite favorable view of them. If they were in the bashing business, I would have a less favorable view.

[concerned about politics]

Most religions have gotten out of the business of bashing others. That is one reason this near atheistic agnostic has a quite favorable view of them. If they were in the bashing business, I would have a less favorable view.

This was a Baptist convention. Baptist talking to other Baptists. Private , personal talk between those of the same faith.
They have every right to talk among themselves freely.
If others dissagree, they can leave the room.
Personally, I say God bless this man for kicking the PC thought police, those who feel they can dictate how others think, right in the Butt!