Al-Qaeda planned more hijacks

Daily Telegraph ^ | June 14 2002 | ANGELA DOLAND

[knighthawk]

Ping

[knighthawk]

Terror suspect ... Jose Padilla was looking for targets

[NorCoGOP]

The revelations yesterday came as evidence mounted that members of al-Qaeda had begun using Pakistan as a base

Note to Musharref....

DUCK!

[Shermy]

I remember reports (rumors?) that boxcutters or knives had been found on at least one other plane in Boston - which had been delayed.

I suspect that since these stories might challenge airlines, they are squashed. Though we are freely given allegations about Radioactiv bombs - they don't hurt any particular lobby group.

[facedown]

TERRORISTS planned to hijack more than four planes on September 11, a top official with the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) said yesterday.

"It's highly likely there were more than four planes involved," said Canadian General Ken Pennie, second in command of NORAD, the US-Canada operation that monitors threats from the air.

On what basis would he make this statement? If they had planned to hijack more planes they'd simply have done so.

[knighthawk]

Some of the hijackers didn't know they were going to die in a suicede bombing. It could be that some others heard they were going to die, but weren't ready be be a martyr yet.

On the other hand, it could be 'over the top' like mentioned in a thread about the 'dirty bomber'.

[knighthawk]

Ping

[Mitchell]

There were also reports or rumors that, on a number of flights, Middle Easterners were already in the cockpit. Dressed as pilots, they were said to have taken advantage of courtesy cockpit seats that used to be offered to other commercial pilots (at the discretion of the plane's pilot, I presume). [This courtesy has apparently been dropped since 9/11.]

As for box cutters, don't forget Ali Ayub Khan (also known as Syed Gul Mohamed Shah) and Mohammed Jazweeth Azmath. These were were the two Pakistanis who were flying when all planes were grounded on 9/1 1. They then took a train to San Antonio, and they were subsequently arrested with box cutters, $5000 in cash, and hair dye; their bodies were apparently shaved. Azmath also had copies of numerous passport photos. (The suspicion, of course, was that they were about to hijack the plane when their plans were thwarted by the quick decision to ground all airliners. They have been charged with credit card fraud and are officially no longer under suspicion of terrorism, if you believe the public press releases.) See this CNN link.

[aristeides]

He left Karachi in early April and briefly visited Zurich in Switzerland before going to Cairo in Egypt. He spent a month there, returned to Zurich, and on May 8 flew to Chicago, where he was arrested by the FBI.

Zurich or Geneva? According to Jim Miklaszewski of NBC News, Padilla flew from Geneva to Chicago.

[eno_]

Not so: some hijackers did not show, others were on delayed flights that never took off that day, including one reported in the British press that was to take off from London. And there were reports of weapons stashed on other planes, either by hijackers that had abonded them or by terorist infiltrators with the iam of helping hijackers.

It is obviously embarassing the FBI let those people slip away.

[Mitchell]

On what basis would he make this statement? If they had planned to hijack more planes they'd simply have done so.

All flights were grounded before they had the opportunity.

[facedown]

It could be that some others heard they were going to die, but weren't ready be be a martyr yet.

That's true, but there was always one guy who knew for sure that it was a suicide mission - namely the guy who was going to pilot the plane.

Now I suppose if the "helpers" wimped out, the pilot may have figured that he couldn't pull off the mission by himself and so lived to "fight" another day.

[facedown]

All flights were grounded before they had the opportunity.

I suppose maybe they didn't figure on that eventuality occurring so quickly but they had to know they would have a narrow window of opportunity.

The comment about delayed flights could be valid.

[Mitchell]

I've thought all along that it would make a lot of sense for the terrorists to have had hijackers on many flights, in a variety of places, intending to hijack them and fly them all (or as many as possible) into buildings. They put too much planning into 9/11 to allow their plans to be foiled by bad weather in the Northeast, or mechanical trouble on an airplane or two, or the like. (I think that the 9/11 date was committed to relatively early, and couldn't easily be changed. Changing the date would have involved re-working much of the logistics from scratch.) With many flights ready to be hijacked, a good number of the hijackings could fail (as apparently happened), but the entire operation would still be successful.

I continue to be the of the opinion that the quick decision to ground all flights on 9/11 saved many thousands of lives. (I do wish that the authorities had had the foresight not to simply let all the passengers walk away from their flights that day, after they landed. Many terrorists probably got away at that time, unfortunately. But this isn't criticism, just a comment -- it's easy, and not truly reasonable, to criticize something like this in hindsight.)

[tall_tex]

Excellent thought process, should have known while I was reading it that it was being posted by a TEXAN.

[WIMom]

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[Prov3456]

It could also be because of President Bush's fast thinking. After being told (at the elementary school in Florida) what had just happened in NYC, he promptly grounded all planes in the US airspace. Hence, would-be hijackers may have had tickets on flights which never left the ground.

[Orangedog]

It could also be because of President Bush's fast thinking. After being told (at the elementary school in Florida) what had just happened in NYC, he promptly grounded all planes in the US airspace.I can't remember who's idea it really was to ground all airplanes. It was likely one of his advisors or possibly a member of the military. Regardless of who actually made the call on that one, either GWB or someone else, we should at the very least be thankful that the grown-ups were in charge that day. I shudder to think about what a "president Gore" would have done that morning.

Maybe that would be a good topic on FR....what would have happened on 9/11 if Gore would have won the 2000 election? Scary stuff.

[Shermy]

Yep.

But with foresight, it will happen again - American Airlines seems bent on making profits - see that thread about the shoe bomb plane and management's plan not to report the threat.

Here's something else for you from Florida:

Security investigation into mosquito choppers

LEE COUNTY, June 13, 2002 — Lee County Mosquito Control is the target of a homeland security investigation. Officers with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement say the agency hasn't broken any laws but may be putting the public in harm's way.

The investigation is in response to a complaint that mosquito control choppers are landing near a busy Cape Coral intersection.

The helicopters often stop for food or fuel in the area when there is no landing pad nearby, but some say they're landing a little too close for comfort.

FDLE is investigating with their domestic security task force and they may recommend that mosquito control not land near neighborhoods whenever possible.

They have yet to complete their investigation.

SECURITY RISK?