Bush Warns of 'Catastrophic Power' in Terror War

Reuters via Yahoo ^ | 6-10-02 | Patricia Wilson

[ridensm]

No argument friend. All I am saying is that I would be willing for the government to TEMPORARILY be able to more aggressively listen in and be able to get search warrants, for example. It's our LIVES and our children's LIVES here...

If we don't count the IRS, how many folks here realize the 4th Amendment has already been trashed in the name of terrorism several years ago? It happened during the clinton administration.

No judge is needed for a search warrant if the target is suspected of terrorism. Any number of federal officials can give the OK. The same federal officials who are asking all of us to keep our eyes open and report any suspicious activity. It's in the congressional record but I don't have the reference right now.

I personally know how weak the follow up on an anonymous tip can be before a standard warrant from a judge can be issued. The fact that beaurocrats can make the decision now causes me concern. Let me explain.

I had two dozen cops break through all windows and doors of my home several years ago at the break of dawn on a Sunday morning. They were looking for automatic weapons and hard drugs they were told could be found in my home by an "anonymous source". (Isn't that a nip on the 6th Amendment too?) Anyway, what they found were a few pot plants and nothing else.

I'm not saying what I did was right but I eventually determined the sequence of events. Some guy owed me some money and rather than pay, he felt the better option was to tell the cops I had tons of automatic weapons and hard drugs. None of which had ever been in my home at any time. The police sent an undercover guy dressed as a telephone lineman to my door who asked to use the phone. I said sure and let him in. On his report he stated that one of my roommates acted "suspiciously" by standing near the hallway while he talked to them, then 3 days later we got the early wake up call.

The entire house was trashed, cushions and mattresses opened and overturned, the entire contents of the refrigerator dumped, drawers and clothes scattered and the busted doors left wide open after carting everyone off so the scoundrels of the neighborhood could come in and take their pick of what wasn't broken.

I'm not trying to excuse the behavior at that point in my life of trying to grow a few pot plants, what I am trying to point out is how dangerous the genie we are letting out of bottle right now can be.

I hate the animals who planned and executed the tragedy on 9/11 as much as anyone. I believe the best way to handle this is through infiltration and information gathering at the source. I know the Isrealis have a much more effective and experienced intelligence unit for this type of activity and still worry everyday about whether their innocent loved ones will ever get home from the market or bus ride.

I also know that while clinton was in office many people around here were concerned about the power, corruption, and invasiveness of our incredibly over inflated federal government spiralling out of control. Years ago I said all they need is a massive terrorist type attack, a continuing threat, and a weak economy to drag what's left of the freedom of America into totalitarianism. I've also always said our two party system is nothing more than two wings on the same bird of prey. It seems to me things are falling into place.

I'm not saying our government had anything to do with 9/11, I have seen precious little evidence regarding exactly who was responsible. Maybe that's my fault. But what I am saying is our government has incredible powers it was never intended to have already and we need to be careful.

[krogers58]

Damn the Politically Correct crowd! This a war against Islam, or at least its radical branch known as Islamicism. Call it a crusade if you wish. If we are to win this war against those that wish us to convert or die, with no middle ground, we have to understand that we need to adopt a "no prisoners" mentality. If we fall anywhere short of this mentality, as the PC crowd would have us do, we will surely lose this battle for our civilization. It is time to use a lethality, so far unknown against those countries which would use terrorism as a means of foreign policy. We all know which countries are involved in this madness. For the sake of clarity, Iran, Iraq and to a lesser extent, Saudi Arabia. It is high time to make a large extent of one of these countries uninhabitable, or we risk having this done to our country. Sure we will get a black eye in the world community, but the risk our government runs, in not taking the appropriate preemptive response, is its very existence. Yes, thats right, our government doesn't deserve to remain in power unless it is willing to use ALL NECESSARY FORCE to protect its citizenry. Empires have crumbled, throughout history, when they were not able to defend their citizens, and I expect the same to be the case, should we suffer some calamity which involves the loss of a large number of lives. WAKE UP WASHINGTON, BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!!!

[MJY1288]

No Flame from me, During WWII we had so many restrictions placed on this country and it's people it was unbelievable. But it was restrictions on our functions of life and our methods of comfort, Not our freedoms. We need to understand that reasonable inconvienences are a part of fighting an enemy. If we fall in line with people who think the comforts and privelidges we currently enjoy are guaranteed by the constitution and afforded to us by our founding fathers, we will fall just like Rome.

The U.S. Constitution was never meant to be a suicide pact, The only threat to our liberty and freedom is the terrorist who want us dead, When the switch of a Nuke is toggled here in this country it will make 9/11 look like minor incedent. We must get involved in this fight by knowing who our neighbors are, and making sure we let everyone we know to do the same. We need to be focused on prevention, because if we don't! our lives will be at risk not our freedoms.

[ridensm]

It took 8 years of inactivity and ignoring the needs of this country to get us where we are today. Anyone who thinks we can wave a magic wand to undo the damage is more delusional than I had previously thought.

The weakness of this country has taken much longer than 8 years to develop. I'm not paranoid, I've just studied history and know both republicans and democrats are to blame. I don't trust either of them. I don't fear my government, I fear the lax attitudes and blind faith in an entity our founding fathers warned us would tend to get out of control.

[Robert Lomax]

I'd love to hear GW say that once, just once.

[Texasforever]

If you suspect you know who made the bogus tip why not sue him? Civil matters only call for a preponderance of evidence, not beyond reasonable doubt. You could also name the LEOs involved as parties to the suit.

[Terridan]

Shouldn't our American freedoms be considered a privilege of citizenship? Of a clean record, and no terrorist ties? I agree with you, but God, too many freedoms of these animals have led to our loses. Keep on posting...

[rabbitdog]

"But when government enters the picture and commands, or conducts any such search minus probable cause...."

So you're saying terrorism in the skies isn't a probable cause??

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

But I disagree with you in part. I think it was most definetly ignored and out of control for 8 years. Did we get it perfect before then? NO

Did we bastardize the Constitution? Yeah

But when we did that.. we also made up things like the Miranda rights, which were so imperfect as to allow a murderer to be able to be murdering an innocent person, while Law Enforcement sat waiting for DUE PROCESS!!

Did you know that things besides committing murder were punishable by death in the first few years of the birth of this Nation? Yeah.. that from our own Constitution. Go figure....

What is happening now in America is necessary..and it is safe.

That is the beauty of our form of Government. When the people move..and act... things happen.

In this situation.. I say it is about damn time!!

It WILL take some time,..but unfortunately people just don't seem to be able to comprehend how big this country is. They think it can be done overnight. It didn't get into trouble overnight..and it can't be fixed overnight. But our President and his most capable administration and staff.. have come pretty dang close to doing it over night!!

We support them and will continue to!

[ridensm]

A lawsuit wouldn't apply since illegal activity (the few pot plants) was uncovered and the police follow up was legally acceptable. Believe me, I checked.

Besides, you miss the point entirely. 1) What I experienced was entirely too aggressive for the law I broke. 2) If I had no pot plants in my house I might have had a lawsuit but I still would have had to experience the events of that Sunday morning. 3) It was all based on a malicious, anonymous tip, with weak but legally acceptable follow up on the part of the authorities.

How friendly are you with ALL your neighbors?

[Texasforever]

A lawsuit wouldn't apply since illegal activity (the few pot plants) was uncovered and the police follow up was legally acceptable. Believe me, I checked.

How friendly are you with ALL your neighbors?

Not to be a smart A$$ but I would have solid grounds for the lawsuit.

[ridensm]

I do know there were very many capital crimes in the early days of this country. I also agree we need to kick some serious tail. But I have a couple of questions for the administration; 1) If standard acts of deterrence are inneffective against terrorists then how will preemptive strikes be effective? The same arguments that justify the first make the second illogical. 2) What is the goal of the "war" and how will we ever know when it is won so we can begin expecting the emergency measures they are adopting (the sacrifices we're making to do our part) to end? 3) Do we kill anyone who has ever had a terrorist thought?

I also want to respond to something else you mentioned:

That is the beauty of our form of Government. When the people move..and act... things happen.

That is how things used to be. Unfortunately "the people" eat whatever is fed them for the 20 minutes they pay attention to the world at 6pm on the major networks. People don't move and act anymore, they follow and respond. Seems to me to be a cause of worry, but that's just me.

[ridensm]

I was a lot younger at the time and had no money for lawyers. I talked to a few at the time but was told there was probably nothing that could be done. Maybe we should have met long ago.

[Quix]

We won't wait until it's too late? I hope that's true. Color me skeptical.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

"2) What is the goal of the "war" and how will we ever know when it is won so we can begin expecting the emergency measures they are adopting (the sacrifices we're making to do our part) to end?

I happen to think it is imperative that the public DOES NOT KNOW every friggin detail!! I'm so sick of that mindset.

So many people willing to die for you and I, have been compromised because of that kind of attitude. Agents who are underground, our troops!! We DO NOT need to know IN ADVANCE any of our pre-emptive moves to protect this country.

3) Do we kill anyone who has ever had a terrorist thought?

Yeah! Because to have a terrorist thought is NOT NORMAL. When growing up.. do we all think.. "ya know, when I grow up, I wanna blow up the WTC's, and kills thousands of people!!".. or "I want to cut peoples heads off".

If we don't kill em,.. we should LOCK THEM THE HELL UP in a mental institute and THROW AWAY THE KEY!!!

And you know what?? I would be totally ethical in thinking that way. Because it would provide the least amount of harm, to the least amount of people. Get it?

Just MHO.. and of course you are entitled to yours. ONLY in America. Ain't it great?

Going to hit the hay. Goodnight and FRegards.

[Quix]

Why isn't Bush warning them of what we'll do within seconds of another devastating attack on us?