'No One Ever Apologized' (USS Liberty)

Greece Post ^

[ThePhilosopher]

No one should waste time responding to a post like yours.

[sneakypete]

Why did Lyndon Johnson and the American news media and others conspire to prevent a proper investigation of this incident?

Why did Israel get a pass that no other nation would have received?

Perhaps the answers to those questions would affect our perceptions of today's conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

I don't know why it would. The answer to both questions is that Jews are a VERY powerful political lobby within the Dim Party,and LBJ wasn't about to do anything to cross them. He was already having enough trouble with the American "Internationalist Left" as it was,and American Jews are THE power behind power behind that movement.

[Jethro Tull]

#103: Jeez,,,what a putz this PsyOp person is.

I'm a retired "cop", who at the age of 53 y/o no longer needs to work. Not to brag, but through hard work, investment and education, I now enjoy a monthly check that allows myself and Mrs. Tull more luxuries that two kids from Brooklyn ever could have dreamed of.

If, when growing up on Flatbush Ave. years ago, I could have look into the future and seen my current life style, I'd have told you that couldn't have been for people like me....that was only for the rich.

And PsyOp, I never took a nickle (maybe a few Krispy Kreams), but never a nickle....

Stick that in your neocon pipe and smoke it....

[RCW2001]

Funny how every time the fascist muslims increase the level of killing against Jewish women and children in the streets of Israel, this story comes back.

There is nothing 'funny' about the fact that today is the 35th anniversary of this tragic event...

That might have 'a little something' to do with this story 'coming back'.

[LarryLied]

Be careful on links. Always check back to the home page of any article. There are articles from mainstream publications posted on some ugly sites. Those who complained about you trace links to their source. Several freepers have been shocked to discover what organization they posted a link to.

[bybybill]

The Israelis said they thought the Liberty was an Egyptian horse carrier, a boat that was used to transport horses.

[ValenB4]

"Greece Post" "(Staff Photo/Anmari Linardi" "the pool at his Greece home". No mention of it being in the US or New York and a picture that looks like a Med resort. I'm a real idiot. How could anyone make that mistake? Oh the shame of it all!!! Nice to know there are geography experts ready and willing to supply the truly relevent information in this debate. Thanks. More like piss-poor journalism rather than defective detective work (hey! that ryhmes!)

There's no need to attack someone for pointing out your mistake. I'm not a geography expert and am not from NY. But even a cursory reading of the wording of that article would make one suspicious that it's not dealing with the nation of Greece but a town. Instead of questioning this person's credibility by wondering where he had the money to buy an island home with a swimming pool, you could have gone to the site to figure out where this newspaper is from. You must have been a whiz in the intelligence community.

[luvzhottea]

With "allies" like Israel who needs enemies?

About the USS Liberty Tom Clancy's "The Sum of All Fears"(the following taken from the U.S.S. Liberty's SURVIVORS' website):

Tom Clancy in his book "The Sum of All Fears":

The key to it, Qati knew, was whether or not the
Americans would put real pressure on the Zionists.
They'd never done so. They'd allowed the Israelis
to attack an American warship and kill American
sailors--and forgiven them before the bleeding
had stopped, before the last victim had died. When
American military forces had to fight for every
dollar of funds from their own Congress, the same
spineless body of political whores fell over itself
giving arms to the Jews.

"The Sum of all Fears" is a work of fiction. This is
Clancy's character Qati speaking. It may or may not
reflect Clancy's view, but it DOES show that Clancy
is aware of the Liberty attack and seems to have
some understanding of the situation.
USS LIBERTY Memorial

[PsyOp]

Perhaps he invested his money wisely.

See post #88. It helps to read all the posts before jumping in.

[PsyOp]

See post #88.

[PsyOp]

Instead of reading psyop's dog and pony show justifications for the killing of American servicemen

I have never said anyone is justified in killing American soldiers. ALL I have said is that being in the military, even in peacetime, is dangerous. That danger increases the closer you get to the battle zone. Accidents do happen.

More American soldiers and sailors have died at the hands of other American soldiers and sailors than were killed on the Liberty. American fighter aircraft during WWII shot up numerous U.S. flagged vessels thinking they were enemy ships, even though the ships were flying our flag, and the aircraft were flying much slower than the jets the Isrealis used.

In fact U.S. servicemen are killed every year in the course of normal training. In the course of my military carreer I was injured several times and nearly killed due to the idiot actions of others on at least three occassion that come immediately to mind - ACCIDENTS HAPPEN! - and when people with guns and powerful equipment are involved - people can die. And when people pumped up on adrenalin start shooting, they tend not to stop until they have done a lot of damage.

The incident with the Liberty was a clossal screw-up, and both sides had a part to play in it which they didn't, and still don't want to admit.

As for the crew of the Liberty, they have my full sympathy. I know just how dangerous their job was (more so than some of you arm-chair generals that have no military experience to help you put things in perspective, I might add), and the kind of dangerous games they were called upon to play on a regular basis. As I said before US intelligence ships spent most of their time going places where most people did not want them to be. And out in the ocean there are no bouys or big white lines in the water to clearly show just when or where they may have transitioned from international to territorial waters. thise lines get crossed all the time - sometimes on purpose - sometimes by accident.

In no way is anything I said intended to take away from the galant service of the crew of the Liberty. But before I am going to accuse Isreal of a deliberately and knowingly attack on a U.S. warship with premeditation, someone needs to tell me just what the Isreali government could possibly have gained from it that holds up under scrutiny (ZOG conspiracies don't count). The answer is nothing.

Just as we are now, we were then, just about the only friend they had. And while we were opposed to their military objectives and tried to get them to stop (which Johnson should not have done, by the way), we were the only thing stopping more direct Soviet involvement in the conflict. To alienate us would have been the ultimate act of stupidity - and even the most hardcore ZOG conspiracy theorist will admit they aren't stupid.

As for the USS Liberty website, I've been all through it. its as significant for what it doesn't say as for what it does, something that someone who relies on a single source might not pick up on. The site has an axe to grind. And while I understand where the people who put it up are coming from, and sympathise with them to a large extent, its still a he said, she said argument. The information is presented in such a way as to make their point - not necessarily reveal the truth. Its a case of fitting the fact to your argument, not your argument to the facts. The problem is there are not enough facts, just a lot of heresay.

That is why one needs to look at the larger picture and not just the day or two of the incident. The Geopolitcal picture of the time (not whether I mistook Greece NY for Greece proper - Ashley). Looking at single slice of military history wihout comparing it to the rest of that history often leads to eroneous conclusions. this need to be put in context.

There was no compelling reason for them to make an attack - except for misidentification and too much adrenalin. It is not the first time that kind of thing has happened, nor will it be the last (ask our guys in Afghanistan). The difference is that this incident easily lends itself to use as a political football by people with an agenda.

[dinodino]

FWIW, my father, who was career Navy and was working with the NSA at the time, had a couple of guys in his command on the ship at the time of the incident. It's been a long time since he told me the story, but the basics were that we intercepted some transmissions which would have been very damaging to the Israelis and so they attacked us, and the incident was covered up by the White House.

I'm sure it's worth nothing to you as it's just hearsay, but I believe my Dad.

[DBtoo]

Thankyou for pointing that out. PsyOp seemed to be unhappy over that Liberty survivor having any money. And there wasn't even a picture of the man's house! We are a little younger than you, but my husband is very good at investing and saving, so we should be in good shape as well, unless the markets crash!

Hey, do you remember the Jethro Tull Stand Up album? I used to really like that one. My favorite song on there was "We used to Know".

[DBtoo]

Oh. So there really are boats that transport horses. I had never heard of such a thing!

[DBtoo]

re: post#29 You're repeating what I already said.

[DBtoo]

That is, about reading all posts first.

[Walkin Man]

There is nothing 'funny' about the fact that today is the 35th anniversary of this tragic event... That might have 'a little something' to do with this story 'coming back'.

Well how about Pearl Harbor day? Do you call for all Japanese and German people to be exterminated by muslim terrorists every year on that date like you do with the anniversary of one mistaken attack that happened 35 years? Oh yeah, I forget, you can find forgiveness in your heart for Germans, Japanese, and Russians but not for the JOOOOOOOSSSSSSWWWWSSSSS! RIGHT?

[PsyOp]

FWIW, my father, who was career Navy and was working with the NSA at the time, had a couple of guys in his command on the ship at the time of the incident. It's been a long time since he told me the story, but the basics were that we intercepted some transmissions which would have been very damaging to the Israelis and so they attacked us, and the incident was covered up by the White House. I'm sure it's worth nothing to you as it's just hearsay, but I believe my Dad.

Its worth plenty if its verifiable and I'm sure your father told you the truth. Whether he was told the truth or not is something else entirely.

That story cannot be true for the following reason: signal interception is passive. When you send a signal out over the airwaves, there is no way to know or tell if anyone has intercepted it - there is not signal that is sent back to tell them that it happened. Receivers do not emit radiation that can be detected. It is impossible for the Isrealis to have known what signals or transmissions the Liberty intercepted.

And even if the two sailors were on the ship, unless they were part of the intercept and crypto team, who would have the highest of clearances and subject to severe UCMJ actions for talking to anyone not similarly cleared in their imediated chain of command, they would not have direct knowledge of any such intercepts. Those guys on the ship doing the actual intel work will not be discussing exactly what they do or what they might have intercepted with other members of the crew.

How do I know this? I was commissioned in the United States Army as a Military Intelligence officer. I know a little something about signals intelligence and the kind of work that was being done on the Liberty. Those sailors may have believed what they told you father, and he may have belived them, not knowing anything about how electronic information gathering is done, but they were simply passing along rumors. And in the military, the vaunted "rumor mill" is always working overtime.

Please feel to do some homework and verify what I said about SIGINT.

Best Regards to you and your father.
PsyOp.

P.S. I don't know what you father did at NSA nnor is it my business. But he probably knows some people that can verify what I have told you, even though it is public knowledge. Or you may have remembered the story wrong. You might want to ask him.

[aristeides]

For some reason, governments seem to have a hard time admitting mistakes, even when those mistakes occurred long in the past. I doubt if any Israelis who made the decisions involving the attack on the Liberty are still alive, so who would be harmed if Israel were to fess up? Especially since, as you suggest, the state of Israel would almost certainly benefit.

But the U.S. government still has a hard time admitting what happened at Pearl Harbor, even though that is much further in the past.

I can tell you this, though. A lot of naval cryptologic veterans, like myself, get pretty offended by hamhanded attempts to obfuscate the truth on both matters.

[aristeides]

If the Israelis knew they had broadcast things that they should not have, and if those things were damaging enough, they would have acted on the assumption that the Liberty had intercepted those transmissions, whether or not in fact it had.