WHAT SHOULD CONSERVATIVES DO ABOUT THE GOP AND BUSH?

June-03-2002 | Texasforever

[DM1]

IF you want Hillary Socialism and Liberal dimwittery in the White House and in Congress than by all means find an alternative. The fact is that on most social issues this administration is conservative (i.e. Gun laws, Judicial Nominees, Defense, etc.). I agree with another member's posting, we need to work within the party instead of abandoning it in order to keep our relevance.

[BeAChooser]

I agree with another member's posting, we need to work within the party instead of abandoning it in order to keep our relevance.

But do we just ignore the GOP ignoring the commission of serious crimes by the democRATS?

Should we ignore the GOP perhaps committing crimes if it helps keep them in office?

[dheretic]

Why don't YOU go back and take a look at what our founders intendend. They railed against parties altogether. A coallition government would be more to their liking than a 2 party system. A coallition would better represent the people because it would be more diverse. It wouldn't not be the civil body politic composed of nothing but independents that the FFs wanted, but it would be closer than this 2 party "hey let's flip a coin and see which socialist wins this time" system.

And in response to another one of your posts, libertarianism is completely against child pornography. Libertarianism is opposed to the creation of any good, service, art, etc that requires the initiation of force against someone in order to create it. You cannot make child pornography without initiating force against the child, therefore it would be illegal under a libertarian system.

People like you are the problem. You cannot imagine a party that truly represents conservatives, that unabashedly supports conservative values. It never occurs to you that in order to get a President elected under an ideal party system, conservatives and libertarians might have to cooperate. Libertarianism has a growing amount of appeal among leftists because a growing number of the people in the "new left" are beginning to see the logical flaw in supporting individual freedom and then seeing the state as a means to the end.

[dheretic]

I will the moment you start using something resembling proper english :-)

[dheretic]

Vote however you want, that is the great thing about America, you are free to do that. It is your obligation to do that.

At least someone understands the necessity of voting your conscience! I do have 1 question though, what "Republican Ideology?" I have yet to see anything resembling consistancy in the Republican Party.

[Honcho]

The question is, "WHAT SHOULD CONSERVATIVES DO ABOUT THE GOP AND BUSH?" Conservatives have a much bigger impact on the primarys. That's where conservatives should send the message.

[nopardons]

Hmmmmmmm ... you think that I should go back and look at what the FFs said / stood for / had in mind ? LOL

Unlike YOU , I know and don't have to check . No, quite right you are , they didn't start out with a " party system " ; but only partially . When Adams and Jefferson wound up with the first and second place number of votes, they became president and V.P. , respectively. That didn't didn't work out well, and since then, instead of a field of candidates running, sans party, and the 1 & 2 vote getters becoming president and V.P. we've had parties; two major ones, to be exact. So, whether you like it or not, the FFs DID initiate the two party system, and we've kept it. They made absolutely NO provision to have masses of parties.

Your knowledge and understanding of history and politics is not nearly as fulsome and expansive as you think they are. Neither do you know what the LP stands for ; evidently. Yes, they DO too think that KIDDIE porn is okay. They thik that children should have " rights " , and that if a child can reasch a lever, should be allowed to vote. No, not ALL Libertarians are going to agree with that, but the LP believes this.

Of course some of the left are going to find Libertarianism inviting ; there is much lefty junk in the LP ! In 30 odd years, the LP has gotten nowhere. Don't blame it on the two major parties " keeping them out " either. Harry Browne gets a LOT of air time on T.V. and radio . Libertaraians on FR, peddle their brand loudly, longly, and to little avail, here on FR. As a matter of fact, in 30 years, Libertarians have not only NOT managed to learn how to win friends and influence people, their tactics drive people away ... in droves.

As to Conservatives and Libertarians ( they aren't Conservatives ! ) being on the same side ; no, they really aren't for the most part.

Can't manage to stay on the thread's topic , can you ? : - )

[dheretic]

So, whether you like it or not, the FFs DID initiate the two party system, and we've kept it. They made absolutely NO provision to have masses of parties.

This country had a 1 party system for a few years under them. When the federalist party collapsed the Democratic-Republican party was the only national party. Based on your logic we should have only 1 party today. The FFs would role their eyes at people like you who would look back on their actions and say that we have to have the exact same system they had. The constitution isn't a living document, but the civil body politic is a living institution. Back in their day, any qualified man could run for office. Now you have to go out and get 10-50,000 signatures so you can plead and beg like a serf to get on the ballot no matter how much you qualify in accordance with the US Constitution.

In 30 odd years, the LP has gotten nowhere.

It has stayed around and grown more than any other 3rd party in the US. The Republicans and Democrats have institutionalized an unconstitutional system of regulations that keep everyone who does not run under their banners off the ballots.

their tactics drive people away ... in droves.

Oh really. Most of the conservatives I know happen to turn away people in droves. I don't recall prominent libertarian leaders coming out and blaming America for the 9-11 bombing. I do recall quite vividly Conservative leaders performing some virulent verbal flag burning telling us that our "evil" has made God forsake us. Libertarians seem moderate and peaceful by comparison. With "patriots" like that, who needs Al Qaeda? Those comments made by people like Jerry Falwell after the 9-11 bombing are the true face of conservatism in this country. Not a deep sadness, but a deep hatred for what America has become.

[nanny]

Well, actually, I was speaking of a 'rant' vote or write-in.

But Al-Queda dead??? You are more optimistic than I on that subject. They may be gone from Afghanistan, because they all crossed the border from Mexico and are in our backyard.

I am a one-issue person right now and it is immigration. Of course, immigration is not just one issue. It is just pure insanity not to close the borders post 9/11 and President Bush would have had the will of the people to do so. Immigration is linked to defense, economic progress, health issues, education, social issue, law enforcement. It is having a detrimental effect on all these things and yet nothing is being done. And nothing will be done if we continue to vote for the Republicans. Actually, I sincerely believe this next mid-term election will be the last election that the votes of conservatives in Texas, California, New Mexico and Arizona will have an effect whatsoever and win or loose, I will be darned if I will give it to the very ones who are destroying this country.

And just for grins what message did you get from Buchanan - and if you say 'protectionism', please explain that for me. That is a word that is hurled at people, much like racist, xenophobe, homophobe, etc. I would really like to know what it means. Actually, the root word 'protect' is one of the things the President vows to do in his oath ---

[dheretic]

Hmmm how can they "out liberal Marx" when Marx stated his deep hatred for liberalism in the Communist Manifesto?

[nanny]

Make that Co-President.

[nanny]

I like your style!!

Just a couple of years down the road when they are replaced by someone who is willing to work for 1/3 their wages, I hope they will be honest enough to come back on FR and admit their error. Now assuming FR is allowed to exist, and that we can still afford 'puters----

Actually, they will probably be so busy learning how to say 'Do you want fries with that' in Spanish.

[dheretic]

Protectionism is when the government closes off our markets to outside competition regardless of how much better that competition is than our domestic producers. Protectionism is what cause the Great Depression. The Smoot-Holly tariff enraged the Europeans so badly that each Western and Central European nation imposed extremely high tariffs on us in response. The goal of the Smoot-Holly tariff was to block up European goods altogether from our market by making them too expensive for Americans to buy. Needless to say, there is a good reason why protectionist is as much of a nasty name to call someone as racist.

[dheretic]

Most immigrants to this country from Europe didn't want to be Americans. They came here for economic opportunity. Don't tell me you think the Irish that came here after the potato famine got started came here out of their own free will. They came here out of necessity. They couldn't afford to go Australia and there was more economic opportunity in the US than Canada. A first generation immigrant that wants to be completely American and give up on their homeland is rare. The images of patriotic immigrants loving their new homeland are a historic falacy created to make Americans feel better. In reality, it was typically the children of the immigrants that behaved that way as they had no sense of identity with their parents homeland. Give the Mexican immigrants a few generations. They will be no different from the Italians or Germans. I see no difference between people being very proud of their European ancestry and people being proud of their Mexican ancestry.

[Aedammair]

Good point you made about conservatives now being the government

Also, I stopped listening to Rush a long time ago simply because I didn't find him interesting anymore, and if George Algore is the best he can come up with; his remaining broadcast days are probably numbered.

Libertarians and small government conservatives have the choice of revolting, or learning to live with the fact that the electorate is predominantly in favor of the government playing a larger role in their lives, than either opposing faction would sanction.

[Uncle Sham]

"There are differences in the Parties and it is the Republican Ideology that gets my vote."

Would you care to cite these "differences"? I admit, that they talk a different game, but the final score always finds us taxpayers on the losing side. Are you saying that the final score is supposedly "closer" and so we should all be happier that we've still lost?