How to Tell the Right From the Left

Rock River Times (IL) ^ | 5/29/02 | M. L. Simon

[Restorer]

The next question to ask is, "Would you put a gun to people's heads to get morality?"

Boy, I get tired of the misuse of this term. What he (and everyone else who talks about how "You can't legislate morality.) is really referring to is sexual morality, not moarlity in general.

But the word morality refers to any defining of right vs. wrong. What else would you legislate about? Every law out there is at least intended to outlaw a wrong. Examples: murder, rape, theft, assault, etc. are illegal because some group made a moral distinction that these activities were wrong and should be illegal, then got enough people to go along with them.

A minor point, but misusing the words allows people to be self-righteous about "legislating morality" without stating their real viewpoint, which is that sexual morality should be the sole area of life immune from legislation. Such a position is perhaps defensible, but if we don't use the terms correctly, it won't be debated properly.

[gcruse]

 What he (and everyone else who talks about how "You can't legislate morality.) is
really referring to is sexual morality, not moarlity in general.

The morality of  growing a vegetable for purposes of
smoking it is sexual?  Must be some killer weed.

[BlackElk]

M. L. Simon, not to be confused with California's next governor, is a local but regular nuisance in the formerly interesting but now totally paranoid Rock River Times (Rockford, IL). He actually lives for the day when his most precious allegedly constitutional right (to be totally zonked on drugs (Oh, man, that's like profound!) all the time is finally recognized. He apparently intends to inflict his inane opinions on unsuspecting people looking for movie schedules at the dollar theaters (they make it up on concession stand gouging) or wrapping their fish or lining their birdcages. Peace, love and Mary Jane. A little bit of historic preservation right here in Rockford.

The paper itself is into suggesting just about anything against Bush that is suggested by the looney tunes who call C-Span in the morning. There is nothing to see here, folks. Move along now.

[southern rock]

Examples: murder, rape, theft, assault, etc. are illegal because some group made a moral distinction that these activities were wrong and should be illegal,

Not exactly. Murder, rape, theft, assault, etc. are illegal because it is a recognized, objective fact that these activities directly violate the rights of others.

[Restorer]

Okay, okay. I over-generalized. Ill try again.

When people use the expression "You can't legislate morality," they are almost invariably talking about either drug laws or sex laws.

Do you disagree?

If you do, please give me an example of a law that was not passed to enforce some group's version of morality.

[BlackElk]

Godless capitalist materialism or Godless communist materialism are the only principled philosophies????? What a limited imagination! What a limited scope of knowledge, and false in both respects. Another applicable dichotomy reflecting your silly notion would be self-worship or state worship.

[NC_Libertarian]

everyone knows that drugs cannot bring you happiness ( unless it's Prozac )

LOL

[wienerdog.com]

I think what the author is questioning is whether religous zealots (not mentioning any names that begin with, for example, CJ) have a direct line to God as to whether smoking marijuana is moral or immoral in the first place. Only then does he question whether it's okay to enforce that "morality" through violence, as so many WOD fanciers seem to advocate.

[wienerdog.com]

That's what I've been saying for months. We must protect the people from Some, but not All, inanimate objects, depending on which objects the "protector" considers evil.

[Restorer]

Ahh, but the idea that it is wrong to violate somebody else's rights is a moral distinction.

Anyway, the existence of natural human rights is not and cannot be a recognized, objective fact. The theory of human rights is based on a large number of preconceptions, such as that all men are created equal, etc. I happen to agree with these beliefs, but they are not scientifically provable, nor are they facts. They are opinions which collectively form a secular faith.

[NC_Libertarian]

You cannot legislate morality. You may legislate against the violation of rights. The purpose of government is to protect rights.

Rape, murder, theft, robbery, fraud, etc. violates rights. Gardening doesn't.

Certainly all real crimes (again, meaning violation of another's rights) are immoral, but everything immoral is not a crime.

[gcruse]

I can't improve on post #6.

[NC_Libertarian]

the idea that it is wrong to violate somebody else's rights is a moral distinction

We take these truths to be self evident...

But on a practical level it comes down to what you're willing to bleed for.

[southern rock]

existence of natural human rights is not and cannot be a recognized, objective fact.

Sure they can. Go out and attempt to murder, rape, rob, or otherwise steal from another person. If they fight back, resist, or in anyway try to prevent or stop you, then you can be pretty sure that person believes you are violating their natural rights.

[Restorer]

I think what the author is questioning is whether religous zealots (not mentioning any names that begin with, for example, CJ) have a direct line to God as to whether smoking marijuana is moral or immoral in the first place.

Actually, I've seen remarkably few articles claiming that drugs should be outlawed because its God's Will, or using any theological reason whatsoever. Perhaps theology is the reason behind those presented in favor of the war on drugs, but I suspect the author is using a "guilt-by-association" tactic here.

IOW, fundementalist theologians are dangerous people, therefore anything they are in favor of must be evil. Fundamentalists are in favor of the war on drugs, therefore the war on drugs must be a Bad Thing.

Which it may very well be, but this line of "reasoning" is specious and irrelevant.

[bescobar]

No differnce; just the tempo of the beat towards socialism. Eegads get your money while you can so you can fly to Russia and practice true capitalism. What a strange world we live in.

[bescobar]

One third party...Capitilist Russia.

[southern rock]

Thanks. I always get a kick out of the "laws against rape legislate morality!!" crowd. :)