Posted on 05/29/2002 8:32:25 AM PDT by cornelis
There's only one God, VR. Though mankind through history has had a variety of names for the One God, even the Greeks, saddled as they were with the Olympian gods, understood that there could only be, at the end of the day, but one god -- for the Olympians were creatures (like men), although immortal. Therefore, the many gods of the Greeks and the other cosmological cultures of the past have their creative source in the One. And yes I'm pretty sure this would be the parsimonious hypothesis. FWIW, on the current state of my analysis. Best to you, VR -- good night and pleasant dreams. -- bb.
Yeah, and Plato detested it so much that his only salvation from the sheer misery of it all was total withdrawal from public life. Go figure. Actually, he understood that he was living in an age of total social collapse, and there wasn't a thing he could do to help the problem. He thus retreated to the Academy, in completely good conscience. good night BMCDA, with all my best wishes -- bb.
Wait a minute, that's the horse you rode in on. The horse I rode and ride is called philosophy. (But I call her "Phil" for short....) good night again, VR! and sleep tight -- bb.
What is the logical process that can get you to [2] above, without first distinguishing and understanding what is the nature of [1] above? Help me here, jenny p. Thanks! good night, and sweet dreams. -- bb.
Following what has become a very good thread quietly (for a change!). I would suggest that it is not one or the other and that it is equally important to understand our origins. But I would be willing to "make the best of it", as I did for many years while naively accepting the evolution that I was taught, were the evidence in place that mankind arose from mindless material. The world looks very different now, far better. But I will always bow to the facts.
Oh, understanding how evolution happened should (theoretically at least!) give us insights into how the human mind works and what humans need to survive & thrive. But so does history, economics, psychology, etc. The point is, we have to take ourselves as we are to understand what we have to do to ensure a good life for ourselves.
IOW, don't fall in to the trap of treating "evolution" as a philosophy when trying to figure us out. It's just a biological theory.
<ahem> This must be a very new commitment! Here, let me show the New You 200 or so transitional vertebrate species...
It is a bit more than a biological theory, and certainly more than a philosophy. Biological evolution is really an instantiation of mathematics that deals with optimization in complex/chaotic systems, a fact that a lot of people lose sight of. "Evolution" as applied to speciation is really the hypothesis that the mathematics is as valid for biological systems as it is for everything else, and it IS used in a number of engineering fields for design optimization when the complexity is such that the problem becomes effectively non-computable using traditional engineering techniques (a major manufacturer that I did work for designs their hard drives this way -- the designs aren't engineered, they are evolved).
Let me guess.... Western Digital.
Well, now, jennyp, I have already deconstructed one Talk Origins article as glib but content-free (see my #453) and that's as far as my service to truth and humanity will go for today; that is, I am doubtful there are 2, let alone 200, transitional vertebrate species. And Talk Origins, as we all know, is highly partisan (to be kind). That said, the context is that there are 300,000 identified species, which number increases daily.
And so you see, jennyp, this commitment of mine to truth and the facts is not new.
Well thank you Tortoise. I am curious, when and how do you believe that consciousness will arise in machines?
Now I find this interesting but I would like a little help with the word, "instantiation". When a hard drive is optimized, the designer (I am partial to this word) knows what optimization means and presumably sets parameters to achieve this result. As to living forms, I would not have a clue what optimization means in the context of 300,000 species. And, for the record, it has not been shown that any species transitions into another, in the fossil record, in nature or in the lab. But the math sounds interesting as a source of insight into a designer's mind and again and again we find that math, however esoteric, has a counterpart in reality.
Many religions have disagreed, not just that of the ancient Greeks. If there aren't many examples around today, it's because some (at least two come to mind) of the later monotheistic religions have a history of expansionism and rabid aggression against the more laid-back polytheisms and anything else for that matter.
How does anyone know about this stuff? How does anyone kid themselves or anyone else that they know about this stuff? It's unobservable, untestable, and flat-out goofy.
Engineers don't engineer with philosophy, BB! You are using a computer to get to FR, aren't you? :)
Truly, but the author of that article also committed logical suicide.
cultures evolve but they don't evolve in the way that species evolve.
The article was a group of words assembled to end up with nothing.
Is the notion 'goofy' observable and testable?
Cordially,
Not sure what you mean by this. Quantum mechanical behavior happens all the time - everywhere (including in the brain). The question is whether quantum mechanical wave function interference effects affect thinking. I believe there are quite a lot of people who do not agree with the statement above.
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