Posted on 05/25/2002 7:33:40 AM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
Yep...and the facts really are on our side, no matter how much the Leftist Medyuh and the DemonRATS spin it otherwise!! An all-powerful, central bureaucracy fails whenever and wherever it is implemented...and the people most hurt are those who come to depend on its largesse. The Right--and the GOP--must stake out ground we can defend in the public square and relentlessly beat the Socialists into submission on issue after issue after issue!! Insodoing, we can devolve power away from the corrupt Federal Leviathan and back to the States, Localities, and Individuals where it belongs!!
Being Right does matter...MUD
Realistically, other than the Tax Rate Reduction from 70% to 28% (for the highest bracket), most of Reagan's domestic wins were more symbollic than legislative. However, except for the first two years of his Presidency, he was hamstrung by a DemonRAT Congress who begrudgingly allowed him to build up the Military to win the Cold War in exchange for runaway domestic spending. Sure, Reagan signed the appropriations bills, but the Cold War against the Evil Empire had to be won and I believe Reagan perceived that the Leftist Congress would have made this impossible if he had fought tooth and nail to decrease domestic spending as it needed to be.
"What agencies did he do away with?"
Heck, we couldn't even get the National Endowment for the Arts or National Public Radio nixed...if any actual agencies were done away with, I'd be surprised.
"Which conservative causes, other than the military, did he advance and have in place at the end of his two terms?"
Much of his gains were rhetorical, IMHO, as he was the first POTUS in generations to challenge the idea that an ever-expanding Federal Leviathan was an unmitigated good. The World War II Generation may in fact be "The Greatest Generation" in a lot of ways; however, they fell in love with the idea that if the Federal Government can defeat the Evil of Hitler and implement the Marshall Plan, it can do anything. Look at the absysmal failure of "The Great Society" and the Ponzi scheme that they designed for Social Security for just two examples of their folly. Reagan was able to convince many in my generation--Reagan was the first President I was eligible to vote for--and others that there were severe limitations on what the Federal Government could accomplish and, in fact, very often the Federal Government's involvement exacerbated problems more than it fixed them.
"Which court decisions under his watch rolled back "socialism"?"
There are many other FReepers who could speak to this question much more authoritatively than I, but I will say that getting Antonin Scalia on the SCOTUS and William Rehnquist as Chief Justice were--along with the nomination of Clarence Thomas--the best things to happen to our Judiciary in 50+ years.
"Then ask yourself what has Bush done in 1/3 of one term that has not matched Reagan both good and bad?"
Believe me when I say I'm no Bush-Basher...sure, I supported Steve Forbes until Bush won the nomination, but got behind Dubyuh and have enthusiastically supported him ever since. There are things I see in Dubyuh's character and his demeanor and his core being that I haven't seen in any politician since Reagan. Still, I believe he is getting some bad advice on how to play the hand that has been dealt him. The Education Bill, the Farm Bill, Campaign Finance Reform, the steel industry subsidies, the seemingly unchecked domestic spending, these are not what Dubyuh and the Right should be standing for!! He's better than that, IMHO, and needn't be bending over and taking it from D'Asshole, Kennedy, etal. We've got a unique opportunity to scale back the size and scope of the Federal Government due to Bush's unprecedented popularity and while losing the Senate has complicated this first two years, we ought to be setting up distinct differences between us and the RATS between now and November so as to make our case to the voters...because I sincerely believe Conservatism is Right for America and we can win big if we stand by our principles instead of cavalierly compromising them away.
FReegards...MUD
I agree completely I just want a fair comparison to be used when using the Great One as the standard for this president and not a myth that many have created for Reagan. No one can EVER match a myth.
Fair enough...I do have a number of Reagan photos hanging from my office walls and have probably mythologized his performance a bit. Still, there was something extremely reassuring about having Ronaldus Maximus in office and I believe there were benefits he contributed to the National Psyche that I can not even put into words. He just made me proud to be an American while he was President, as does Dubyuh on many an occasion...I just wish Bush would fight a bit harder for those things I honestly think he believes in. IMHO, the Country would rally behind him as the Cause of Conservatism and limited government was advanced.
FReegards...MUD
Power *is* all that matters, Mud.
Compromise then, is power in a state of equalibrium.
Anything less is a dictatorship, & you know that, too.
That old man's been 'round a long time, y'know.
He's witnessed first-hand & many times the kinds of strange realities that'll result whenever mixing the extremes of ideologies.
...the ideologies of youthful idealism produce the strangest realities of 'em all, too.
What Bush is quietly doing to thwart the 'Third Way' globalists is awesome. Instead of telling the Afghani people how to live, he reminds them and all that they are to rule their own nation. Many within the EU nations now look at their own PC multiculturalism, beloved nations rotting from within, and the right is on the comeback for the first time since the European socialists/press demonized and drove out the last true conservative leader. Bush said NO to the global warming Nazis (to the WHOLE pack of them), NO to the world court, NO to the UN racist convention, sent pro-family CWA reps. to the UN conference on families (which angered the feminists...at first...then Chinese women and others actually thawed and asked "how can I keep my man from cheating on me?")...said YES to religious freedom from within China, got Russia to sign on to missile defense...all without name-calling, demeaning others, but with determination and focus. This is a voice, and a courage, that has been missing on the international scene for years, and persecuted people around the globe are finding the courage to speak out. Much like Reagan's "evil empire" speech heartened Soviet political prisoners who now knew that others knew about them....N. Korean Christians and political dissidents took heart from Bush's including N. Korea in the Evil Axis...finally, someone's acknowledging their suffering and exposing the brutal Communist rule Albright kowtowed to and celebrated...even on the day terorists bombed the USS Cole in Yemen.
The international globalists and third way supporters are so alarmed by these international changes that they're meeting in June...Clinton, Blair, corrupt socialist financiers...to try and get their plans for world domination and "utopia" back on track...(^:
BAHH!!! Not if it is used to promote the Agenda of the Opposition, my FRiend.
"Compromise then, is power in a state of equalibrium. Anything less is a dictatorship, & you know that, too."
If we're gonna compromise, lets compromise on OUR issues then. Instead of eliminating the Capital Gains Tax in two years, let's compromise and eliminate this form of double-taxation over 4-6 years!! Instead of eliminating the Department of Education in one fell swoop, let's gradually disempower it and sunset its funding and authority to five years from now!! That's compromise, not giving the Left everything it wants and more in order to keep them from having an agenda to run on in the next election.
"That old man's been 'round a long time, y'know. He's witnessed first-hand & many times the kinds of strange realities that'll result whenever mixing the extremes of ideologies."
I assume you're talking about C.T., and I must say I have a lot of respect for his understanding of how the World seems to work but sincerely believe his unwillingness to charge forward in promoting our shared agenda is the result of getting kicked in the teeth a few more times than I. We mustn't be timid in advancing our Agenda because when we are, the Left rolls over us in our defensive posture.
"...the ideologies of youthful idealism produce the strangest realities of 'em all, too."
Come again?!
FReegards...MUD
Back in early 1963 things looked bad for the GOP in California. Nixon was down for the count. JFK beat him in 1960 and Brown beat him for Governor of Califorina in 1962. It looked bad for the pubies in California.
Cap Weinberger, Ed Meese and a few other guys decided they needed a winner in California. Brown would be up for relection in 1966. He had just kicked Dick Nixon's a$$ easily in the governors race. They needed some one who could appeal to the leftist voters that make up California better than Dick Nixon.
Someone suggested Ronnie Reagan. There was just one problem with Ronnie, He was a Registered Democrat. But he had lots of positive TV exposure so they thought he might make a good candidate in 1966 against Brown. They would just have to make a RINO out of a DINO.
They talked to Ronnie and he was interested. They had big concerns. The right wing was sure to label Ronnie as a RINO. After all he was a retired Union President who had rasied money for FDR, Truman, and JFK. Yes virginia he spent union dues to elect Democrats. That is what Union Presidents do and Reagan was a UNION President. The far right would label him a RINO indeed. That would not hurt in the General election but it could cost Ronnie the primary.
So as 1964 rolled long, they got a great idea. The mainstream Republican candidates for Senate and House Seats looked at Goldwater as the disaster he was. The didn't want to even campaign with him let alone speak at his convention. Goldwater had the nomiation sewed up. So to take the RINO argument away from the Right they had Ronnie give a speech for Goldwater at the Convention. Goldwater was happy to get someone from the center to speak in his behalf. Then in 1966 when the right tried to tag Ronnie as a RINO He could say he worked for Goldwater..when few others would.
Ronnie did his best and the pro Goldwater speech at the convention was real dynamite. The media glowed over it. Their reason was to paint Goldwater as a far less astute politictian, and far more mean spirited than an actor turned professional politician who spoke for Barry. They kept saying that Ronnie came across as Goldwater should have but didn't. They said Ronnie cam presented himself as a nice guy but Barry was to stuborn, hot headed, and foolish to be a nice guy. They used Reagan to beat Goldwater's image and the Right Wing Nuts loved it. Most of us couln't believe it. At the time we thought it was great for Ronnie. There would be no right wing charges of RINO in 1966.
It turned out the speech caused a real problem at the other extreme. The left would for ever after tag Ronnie as a right wing nut. They tried that tact 1966 and again in 1970 but it only had limited success. Ronnie won with the Right wing media tag. They could not make it stick with enough people. Tom Brokaw who was the LA anchor for NBC at the time surely tried but failed. Brokaw once told me how he tried to take Reagan down as a right wing nut, but failed. Right wing nut did not stick to Ronnie like it did to Goldwater.
Then in 1976 Ford used it against Ronnie to good effect. He beat Reagan for the Republican nomination. So in 1980 the Right Wing nut charge was used extensively by Carter. It was never true. Reagan was an FDR Democrat that didn't go for McGovern. He became a Republican because Brown had the future blocked in the Democratic party.
Just prior to the 1980 debate with Carter the strategy was set by Ronnie. The race was close and Reagan was going to have to get a goodly chunk of Democratic votes. Reagan decided to use the debate to present himself as the man who would present his Republican party as a 1930's style Democratic party. He would infer that Carter was taking the Democrats down the McGovern road. Ronnie now had the Republicans, they wanted a winner, and he could present himself honestly as an FDR fan, Union boss, working class traditional Democrat, type guy.
It was decided that Reagan made the following points in the 1980 debates. He did. They were:
1.That Reagan had been a Democrat up until 1962. He
was then and still was a fan of FDR. He was to call
FDR his political hero.. Reagan did that in the
Reagan/Carter debate.
2. Reagan was to make the point that his views had not
changed from the days he was a Democrat and supported
his Hero...FDR. The Democratic party had changed
not Reagan. Reagan made that point twice.
3. Reagan was to emphasize that he was currenly a member
in good standing of his UNION. And that he had been
elected President of that UNION not once but twice.
Union Presidents are not ANTI UNION.
4. Reagan wast to make the point that he had not
dismantled government when he was governor of
California. He was to say that "safety net"
expenditures were increased every single year he was
Governor of California. They were and he did.
5. He was to talk about welfare queens that ripped off
the system so there were not enough funds to take
care of the real needy. That was a straddle to
please both the left and the right. It worked.
6. Reagan talked about the fat cats ripping off the
government. He would fix it so the money got to the
people that needed it. That was right out of Harry
Trumans playbook. REagan said was not against
governemnt programs.... he was against government
waste. And he was. It was the truth.
7. Reagan was to say his Economic policies were the
same as those enacted by John F. Kennedy and
supported by both John and Teddy kennedy in 1960.
That was the truth too. It was music to the ears
of a lot of Democrats that did not like Carter.
Those were the prime points Reagan intended to make and did make in the 1980 debate. Reagan knew he had to get a bunch of the left to win and he did it. His run to the left picked up his poll numbers by over 10 points.
It went from a close race that Jimmy Carter could have won to a Reagan blow out. And what Reagan said was true. He did not lie about his beliefs. Ronald Reagan WAS a giant FDR fan.
What did Reagan do in office. He cut taxes and increased spending. Just like FDR and JFK did before him. He claimed the Democrats made him spend it, but he signed the spending bills. He said he would end the department of Education. Once in office he never did it.
Reagan asked congress over and over to LIMIT the GROWTH of Government. He never once proposed that it get smaller. He only wanted it to grow slower than it had under Carter.
Reagan did build up the military, but so did Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and JFK. Reagan used the military but so did Clinton. Reagan was no more hawkish on the military than many Democrats before him. He used to describe himself as a Scoop Jackson Democrat. And that is what Ronald Reagan was.
People around here keep using Reagan as an example of far right wing success. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Reagan was a centerist.
Back in 1991 my Nephew was assigned to do an NBC library program for use when Reagan dies. Yes Virginia all the networks keep lots of prepared footage put together for Presidential deaths. They have them for the current and all former living office holders. The update them every year or two.
To do this upgrade in 1991 my Nephew met with Reagan for interviews. One of which took place in a barber shop.. But that is another story. My Nephew is slightly to the left of Brokaw and thought the right wing image of Reagan was true.
He called me in amazement when he was finished the actual interviews. He said Reagan was exactly what I said he was. He was astonished. I told him he does not believe his own propaganda.. why did he believe his predecessors?
I told my amazed nephew what I tell you. I was there when it happened. That is a great help in understanding what actually happened. You know what the media has told you happened. That is a great detriment to understanding what happened.
I am also deeply concerned (a little Daschlespeak) that this will turn into an all out witch hunt of mammoth proportions against our President and his young Administration which was less than eight months in the White House when the September 11 attacks occurred. How much of the breakdown is truly the result of eight years of the Clinton Administration's lack of interest in pursuing terrorist networks? How much of this breakdown is a result of a liberal democrat demand that all agencies under the Clinton Administration practice perfect PC, open up wide our borders, granting visas without adequate checks, and most egregious was a Congress that voted overwhelmingly against providing the necessary funds for the government intelligence networks to do their job?
Truly these spurious mean spirited insinuations by the democrat leadership must cause very deep sorrow to our President and his family. I know it does to me to think that a political party has become so negative, so obsessed, so partisan, that they would stoop this low. And, I thought Bill Clinton's sexual exploits in the oval office stooped low enough.
But, thankfully, the American people, regardless of political affiliation, or none, seem to see right through the democrat leadership's latest non-productive ploy. So far, they can't get their spaghetti to stick to the wall.
LOL...so now I have an "ilk"?! Interesting, Mr. Tator...I guess everything is relative and your perception of the transformation of Reagan from DINO to RINO differs significantly from what I've read over the years, but a lot of your facts ring true. Still, I don't consciously believe much at all of what the Media tells me...then again, when you are immersed in the Culture who knows what has soaked in unconsciously.
Relatively speaking, though, in 1980, Jerry Ford was the Centrist and Reagan was indeed the Far Right candidate for a time when Socialism had continued to hold sway until we were suffering from a malaise and the Gipper did a great deal to bring us out of it. He may not have been successful in decreasing the size of the Federal Leviathan, but he definitely sowed the seeds of doubt in many of us that a Centralized Bureaucracy was something that could--or should--be expected to solve all of Life's dilemmas. I believe it is up to us to pick up that knowledge and run with it. Federal Government spending as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product has increased past 25% for the first time since WWII and this is despite defense spending accounting for an almost historic low percentage of that!! Do we allow it to continue to grow to 30%?! How 'bout 40%?! No, I say we begin to make the tough choices that decrease it back to 20%...15%...8%!! Of course it can be done, but only by winning over the hearts and minds of the American people. Perhaps Dubyuh can accomplish this in the next 6 1/2 years, or at least begin moving the ball in the Right direction...my complaint with him is that lately the balls been moving in the Wrong direction and Dubyuh doesn't seem to be overly concerned with it.
FReegards, Ol' Man...MUD
HA!!
You've more heart than any 10 people I know; which, is why you're such a valuable person to the conservative movement.
Our side's woefully absent of heart; as well as another body part. {g}
Still...aren't you forgetting compromise?
Otherwise, I could agree with your take entirely.
"If we're gonna compromise, lets compromise on OUR issues then."
That IMO, is not compromise.
I'll grant you that what we've witnessed looks mighty damned one sided of late; while, in all fairness?
We really don't know what the big picture is, what's been done now to setup the future.
Our view is strictly one dimensional; and, for many more, even less than that.
"Instead of eliminating the Capital Gains Tax in two years, let's compromise and eliminate this form of double-taxation over 4-6 years!! Instead of eliminating the Department of Edu...That's compromise, not giving the Left everything it wants and more in order to keep them from having an agenda to run on in the next election."
No.
That's our idea of *compromise*.
One I'd LOVE to see, btw; so, don'tchu ever stop promoting your POV, & I'll promise to never stop praising every word you say.
"...and I must say I have a lot of respect for his understanding of how the World seems to work..."
Seems?
It seems to me possessing an understanding of that process is the whole trick to not just survival, but to success.
"...but sincerely believe his unwillingness to charge forward in promoting our shared agenda is the result of getting kicked in the teeth a few more times than I."
Couldn't agree more!
Your youthful hell-bent-for-election "Go where Angels fear to tread" attitude borne of youth...
v.s.
The experience of years lived, and the conservative POV attained as a result.
Works for me!
Yup...couldn't agree more with ya; again.
We're on a roll! ;^)
"We mustn't be timid in advancing our Agenda because when we are, the Left rolls over us in our defensive posture."
~& when we're not timid?
We hand the Left an issue to demagog visa-vi our very approach; hence, "Draconian Cuts," "Extremist," "Starve the children," "No *Gravitas*" and on & on & on ad nauseum.
The Left "is" evil; so, they tell their side the motive behind our action(s) are even more evil.
They can do so in a million different ways, y'know; and, their Liberal-Socialist media makes the smear job a virtual piece of cake.
Think.
"...the ideologies of youthful idealism produce the strangest realities of 'em all, too."
"Come again?!"
Must I?
Oh yea, & one more thing concerning the accurate & most facinating assessment of RR I'd just read (& lived through...)?
Let us always remember what Reagan told the media goons when they tried to set him up to take a fall by asking him, essentially, if he didn't feel hypocritical by leaving the Democratic Party for the Republicans??
"I didn't leave the Democratic Party; they left me."
Mud?
The people went absolutely nuts after hearing that line; and, why not?
After all, honestly; where do 'Rats go when they finally grow up, hmmmm?
Millions of people upon hearing that statement actually found themselves feeling comfortable with their conservatism for the first time in their lives.
Many construed that man's sharp, clever quip to be, "Leadership;" but, was it?
Or was it really a case of quick wit the result of an even sharper, survival instinct??
Reagan touched more voters using one sentence than everything Carter ever said, combined.
...& his words are still touching people to this day, too.
A minor error in an otherwise interesting story. Reagan did not make his famous Goldwater speech at the 1964 GOP convention at the Cow Palace. In fact, Reagan's speech was a nationwide television address two weeks before the election. I believe it was carried by all the networks and the speech alone helped sway enough voters over to Goldwater so that he got 40% of the popular vote and carried six states.
But, as you suggest, the real winner was Reagan, who became an overnight political superstar after that one magnificent performance. And then went on to become the Man who won the Cold War.
I love Ronnie.
Dittoes...MUD
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