Could the South Have Won?

NY Books ^ | June 2002 ed. | James M. McPherson

[bimbo]

President Lincoln never did anything as far outside the pale as that. Oh no? How about the unconstitutional annexation of Western Virginia?

How about the suspension of Habeas Corpus?
How about the Arrest of Supreme Court Justice Tanney?
How about the dismissal of the Maryland Legislature to prevent that state from seceeding (and having Washington DC surrounded)?
There are more ... Lincoln was quite a tyrant with a huge disregard for the constitution, which has never been completely restored.

[wardaddy]

Ok:

Nassau St(a loft) behind JR's Music World
104th and Riverside...nice Hudson views
115th and Morningside(Colombia Housing) as close to da hood as I lived.
85th between West End and Riverside...a townhouse next door to the YWCA dorm
One year on Upper Broadway on the Hudson in Upper Nyack in a former carriage house on a gilded era estate..right across the river from SingSing
25th between Madison and Park...between the NY Life and MetLife buildings on the 44th floor of a post war high rise
90th and York.(another boring high rise)..across the street from that little Amphitheatre by the FDR. The Surf Club and Elaines were around the corner.

Have you never viewed my homepage...I have lived, worked, or maintained a residence in many many places until about 5 years ago. We're talking from late 81 till July 4th 1988 when I moved my family to Miami.

[wardaddy]

Oh sorry I forgot. Gemstone mining and trading...hence an office on 47th st and then ship ownership/operation.

[rustbucket]

How about the Arrest of Supreme Court Justice Tanney?

While Lincoln may have contemplated Taney's arrest, I don't think Taney was actually arrested. The more I read, the less respect I have for Lincoln. He achieved his purpose, but he trampled the Constitution.

[varina davis]

How about the suspension of Habeas Corpus? How about the Arrest of Supreme Court Justice Tanney? How about the dismissal of the Maryland Legislature to prevent that state from seceeding (and having Washington DC surrounded)? There are more ... Lincoln was quite a tyrant with a huge disregard for the constitution, which has never been completely restored.

Absolutely! ...And shut down newspapers that disagreed with him; refused prisoner exchanges even when it would have benefited his own troops; after an Indian uprising in 1862 and to appease white voters, the president selected 39 Indian prisoners for execution (he later carried Minnesota); exempted 6 parishes under Union control in Louisiana and the 48 counties of western Virginia annexed by the Union,in the Emancipation Proclamation that freed slaves in all other CSA states....and the list goes on

[Non-Sequitur]

No, the troops were there because they were requested by the governor of Virginia. Maybe ther governor didn't think that John Wilkes Booth could handle it?

[Non-Sequitur]

Did I ever defend John Brown? He was a murderous fanatic who bit off more than he could chew and got what he deserved. I just find the charge a bit ludicrous. Get him for murder, rioting, insurrection, whatever. Treason against Virginia sounds stupid.

[Non-Sequitur]

Maybe my puzzlement comes from the fact that he wasn't a resident of Virgnia. How can someone commit treason against a state they never lived in? That would be like Nazi Germany charging American POWs with treason against ther Riech and executing them for it. Maybe they should have charged him with invading Virginia?

[Non-Sequitur]

Maybe you two should take another look at the history books. Lincoln never arrested Taney, never tried to have him arrested, never swore out a warrent for his arrest. That charge has been shown to be bogus time and again. Lincoln did not dismiss the Maryland legislature, something he did not have any authority to do, but he did work with the governor to ensure that the loyal members of the legislature were able to meet without being attacked. The question of whether or not the president can suspend habeas corpus has never been definitively answered, as Chief Justice William Rehnquist pointed out in a recent book. One would think that the Chief Justice would know what he was talking about, wouldn't you?

As for political prisoners, press censorship, trashing of the constitution, and all the rest, you don't have to look any further than Richmond for examples of that.

[Non-Sequitur]

If his first love was homicide then he would have practiced it more indiscriminately. He stuck to killing people while fighting his own war on slavery. The whole Kansas-Missouri border was like that prior to the war. For example, on May 19, 1858, 30 pro-slavery men crossed the Kansas border south of the Marais des Cygnes River. They rounded up 11 local free-state men and marched them to a ravine near the Missouri border. There, they opened fire on the unarmed prisoners, killing five and wounding five other. One man escaped being shot by falling to the ground and playing dead. John Brown showed up a few weeks later and began construction of a fort near the ravine. I guess that didn't work out because he headed east after that.

[Non-Sequitur]

Yeah, John Brown was six different kinds of weird. A lot of fanatics are regardless of their cause. Brown was also supposed to be quite a cook and in his last fight at Harpers Ferry he carried a sword that had been owned by Frederick the Great.

[wardaddy]

Troops were dispatched Federally. It was after all a US Armory. They were tried for treason against the State of Virginia. The Boothe revelation was strictly as info which I was previously unware of. Sorry, I will stick to strictly a style of confrontation in the future.

BTW, before you get to foaming at the mouth, I know some sources will call the troops dispatched from Wash DC as militias.

Treason against a state is fairly clear in the laws of our founders though it may sound archaic to you now. Imagine the Azatlan proponents revolt in Texas to overtake the Texas government. Would it be treason against the state of Texas and the US govt. or only against the US.

I'm cooking out right now....I'll get back to you....needn't worry.

[wardaddy]

Well at least you admit John Brown as a murderer and I think a loony. Mortin canonizes him..LOL

[wardaddy]

He also carried a sword in Kansas given him by some famous Yankee abolitionists called the Secret Six....whom to his credit he never ratted on.

What did old Walden Pond say: "John Brown shall never be judged by a jury of his peers because he has none".....Thoreau was a hair on the idealist side I'd say....nice pond though....been there ...done that.

[Non-Sequitur]

Yeah I barbecued some ribs for the family and my parasite in-laws. I'm hiding out waiting for them to leave.

I doubt I'll get an answer from Aurelius so I might as well ask you. John Brown was born in Connecticut, raised in Ohio, lived in New York and Kansas, and never set foot in Virginia until his stunt in 1859. How could John Brown be convicted of treason against Virginia when he wasn't a resident?

[Non-Sequitur]

Yeah I know. And stand waite thinks William Quantrill sits at the right hand of the Almighty. Some people have weird heroes, I guess.

[Ditto]

I am only against Yankee interference into my traditions and heritage under the PC banner.

If you're talking about the current flaps over the Rebel flag, MOH is that both sides can take flying leaps. The NAACP is looking for cash over nothing while their own young men a killing each other off faster than the KKK ever dreamed of, and the average Bubba's who are all hot and bothered for that flag are tourqued over a mythical history that never was.

I say screw them both, but don't go inventing things on either side that never were.

BTW. That 'flag' used to fly in my house ---- my teanage daughters thought it had something to do with country music. They had no idea what the history behind it was and I was content to leave well-enough alone until all crap broke out.

[varina davis]

One would think that the Chief Justice would know what he was talking about...

While I have a lot of respect for a chief justice (Rehnquist) who bravely sang "Dixie" at a public gathering a year or two ago, it is also true that a title does not ensure divine perception.

[Non-Sequitur]

No, but I would say that he is a better judge of Constitutional law than you or I.