Could the South Have Won?

NY Books ^ | June 2002 ed. | James M. McPherson

[GOPcapitalist]

Inthe first place the amendment was done under Buchanan, and was debated and passed a month and a half after 7 states had seceded. Lincoln had nothing to do with it.

You are incorrect.

Buchanan eventually lent his support to that amendment, but it was first and foremost a Lincoln project. William Seward first proposed it before the Committee of Thirteen in December, 1860 after recieving direct instructions from Lincoln to do so. From there on Lincoln carefully managed, and at first in great secrecy, its path through Congress up until the days before it was voted on by the full house and senate. Newspaper accounts at the time document extensively that Lincoln publicly lobbied for it during those final days. Henry Adams credits the amendment's success in Congress entirely to Lincoln, noting it passed due to the "direct influence of the new President." Lincoln followed a few days later by openly endorsing it in his inaugural address.

[Mr. Bird]

You're right ---- you are no Civil War scholar.

After reading your expositions here, I'd pause before casting aspersions if I were you. Maybe you were a little uptight when you first read my comment. Do you believe that the state of South Carolina wished to engage in armed conflict upon adoption of its cessation declaration? Why the hell would they have wanted that? But I guess for you scholars, some of the simple points are tough to grasp. Next you'll tell me Ohio was in danger of being occupied by Tennessee....

[rustbucket]

Since desertion was not a crime in the state

Thanks for your post. Was there any law that said desertion at time of war was not a crime in North Carolina or was it just the practice of some judges?

Also, which reigned supreme in the Confederacy in such a case, the Confederate Articles of War or local practice?Apparently Pickett thought court-martial under the Articles of War prevailed. It apparently would have under US law. With there being no Confederate Supreme Court, I guess this was probably never tested in court.

[Aurelius]

"Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I pointed out in Reply 323 and 324 that it was CajunPrince who was wrong and not Walt. I guess you missed those, huh?"

Perhaps you shouldn't be in such a hurry to toot your own horn. WhiskeyPapa said:

"...no one has EVER been hanged for treason in the United States..."

And by your own admission, John Brown was hanged in Virginia, which was in the United States, for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia.

[Aurelius]

"Butler was a boob and made a mess of every command he ever held."

But he made one major contribution to the Union effort. It was he who commanded the 1864 operation in which: "... under the protection of federal bayonets, New York went Republican by seven thousand votes."

[varina davis]

I publicly outed the last time he reappeared as Titus Fikus, about a month ago.

I appreciate your vigilance.

[wardaddy]

that goes for every state(or colony) that ever held slaves..

[wardaddy]

I'm not much on copy and paste so I'll just without any proof say you are wrong like everyone else does...LOL

Regards

[Ditto]

Yankees were rightous virtuous folks who saved us from our own evils...

The "Yankees" didn't give a damn about "you" or "your" evils. (How old are you anyway?) Most didn't care about slavery one way or another. But thank God that at least a million of them cared enough for this nation to fight to save it from the slaveocrats. That they "saved you" from the Bannana Republic status that the CSA was rushing headlong into was an purely incendental effect of their sacrifices.

[wardaddy]

Your head is gonna burst Dit from all that self righteousness...careful!

[Ditto]

Do you believe that the state of South Carolina wished to engage in armed conflict upon adoption of its cessation declaration?

Did they "want to"? The short answer is Yes! If another Buchanan had been elected in 1860, they would have been glad not to engage in armed conflict at that point. But in a year or so after they consolidated power, they would have been marching on US territory in the West --- Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico --- maybe even California. They would have also at some point invaded Cuba and Mexico. They tried that even before the war.

They would have gone to war one way or another because expansion of slavery was their objective. Look at the economics of it. Slaves were a valuable asset --- as long as the demand for slaves remained high. Slave population also doubled every 25 years --- twice the rate of the southern white population. South Carolina was nearly 50% slave in 1860. What were they going to do with all those 'excess slaves". If they did nothing, and allowed Lincoln to isolate slavery in the south, the value of their assets would collapse as supply outstripped demand. At the same time they would find themselves hopelessly outnumbered by slaves while visions of Santo Domingo danced in their dreams. Since they had for the last 30 years from the time of Calhoon, propagandized the non-slaveholding population that slavery is ordained by God and that free blacks were a menace to white men, they couldn’t just cut the excess loose without the poor whites going ballistic on them. The only 'rational' alternative was to open new markets for the “excess inventory”. Why else do you think some wealthy South Carolina planter without a care in the world gave a damn what happened in Kansas.

Follow the money.

[muleboy]

His contributions to the moral development of the South are indeed profound, and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for his destruction of the KKK, both in 1872 with the mass arrests in the South, as well as in the 1960's when the legislation he wrote was evoked to provide for Federal prosecution of whites who had murdered and walked when southern white juries thumbed their noses in the traditional fashion at law and civilization.

Because of Butler we now have "legal" double-jeopardy?

And you call that a "contribution to moral development"?

Thank you for the posting of the totalitarian Yankee statist logic that helps prove which side was really fighting for freedom.

[rustbucket]

I found two things of interest concerning the hanging of the 22 NC deserters by Gen. Pickett. See: Sermon about NC hanging and After the NC hangings.

The first is a sermon given by the Confederate chaplin who spoke with the hanged men. The second is a history by Dr. Donald Collins of what was done (or not done) about this incident.