Posted on 05/23/2002 8:52:25 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
Yeah, but they were hanged -in- the U.S. Haupt was executed, but I don't think he was hanged. A quick search didn't turn up the method, but he was probably electrocuted.
Walt
John Brown was tried by Virginia and found guilty of treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia, whatever that means. He was not tried in federal court and could not be charged with or found guilty of treason against the United States. Here is a website with details.
Herbert Hans Haupt was convicted of sabotage and executed for it. What you, with your DiLorenzo-like devotion to truth and details, have done is confuse his case with that of his parents. Haupt's parents, Hans and Erna Haupt, along with his aunt and uncle and two family friends, were arrested in Chicago shortly after Haupt was caught. They were tried for treason for conspiring to help Herbert Haupt. They were convicted, but sentenced to life in prison.
Sorry, old sport, but Walt is right and you are wrong...again.
Well, I thought i had it right. I forgot about Nat Turner. Thanks for the research and the back up.
Walt
Thank you. He is an obvious jerk and unfit for intelligent debate.
I wonder if they were "galvanized", forced to enlist in the so-called CSA forces or face being hung.
You say reportedly. Reported by whom?
Walt
Being born 80 years after the contest was decided, I cannot take credit for the victory of freedom. I do understand that there must be a lot of very, very old southern people who post here judging by the constant use of the first-person tense in describing events of 140 years ago. What is the secret for that longevity? ;~))
For my part, the issue was federal power ..... the kind of federal power that could end slavery, which was what Lincoln was after. The immediate cause was the existence of slavery in the South, which Lincoln had often insisted (in his "house divided" speech, for instance) was an issue that had to be settled his way. His platform issue is what you assert: that "expansion of slavery" couldn't be permitted; but that wasn't Lincoln's real issue, and subsequent developments show clearly that it wasn't. The larger issue that drove the Southern States out of the Union was, what sort of federal government would be able to accomplish Lincoln's goal? The South didn't want to stick around and find out what he had in store for them, and I don't blame them.
Interesting thesis, but it is not supported by the record. Lincoln never demanded an end to slavery before 1863, (one of the points DiLorenzo and the Lost Cause Lincoln bashing zealots around here bat around to show that he was a "racist" who didn't care at all about slavery.) In 1861 even before taking office, he offered to support a constitutional amendment to prevent slavery from being abolished in the states where it existed. In 1862, he offered amnesty and protection of slaves for any southern state that returned to the union. Even the Emancipation Proclamation left slavery alone in areas under Federal Control and gave states in rebellion 100 days to return to the union and keep their slaves.
Lincoln stated many times that he thought slavery would die on its own if it were isolated in the 15 states where it then existed. The Southern slaveocrats totally agreed with him, and that is why they went to war. Keeping slavery isolated would have destroyed the wealth that slavery generated for that corrupt band of aristocrats who nearly ruined this nation.
You say reportedly. Reported by whom?
The numbers of deserters came from a 1996 talk at an East Carolina University Civil War Symposium by Dr. Doanald E. Collins. Dr. Collins is apparently writing a two-volume book on the Eastern North Carolina Union vets. The text of the talk is given at: Carolinians in the Union Army
In a quick scan of the talk I didn't see reference to these people being forced to joint CSA units. The author does mention that there may have been a bit of rich man / poor man rivalry at work here and that some of these poor Carolina farmers that joined the Federal units may have hoped to appropriate some of the rich slave owners' property. The author also mentions that some joined these Federal units after Gettysburg and the downturn in Southern fortunes. Perhaps these were the ones who deserted the Confederate Army.
Some of his troops apparently did just that. Here is a court report appropriately entitled "Beastly Outrages" in the New Orleans newspaper The Daily Picayune (the paragraph breaks are mine to make it more readable):
Eleven soldiers belonging to the 159th New York Regiment were tried for marauding and committing outrages too gross for public mention. Of these, two were perhaps 25 years of age, and the others were mere boys, varying from 17 to 20. One of the youngest of these boys turned State’s witness and pointed out those of his companions who were engaged in the outrage; the part he took being simply that of stealing fowls of which he obtained about fifteen.
According to the story of this witness, the young men went to the plantation of Mr. R. D. Darden, in Lafourche, and while he and another of his companions were engaged in stealing chickens from the negro cabins, some of the crowd broke into one of the cabins. Who broke the door in he did not know and what was done therein he did not witness. The inmates of the cabin were a negro of about 40 years in age, his wife, and his daughter, a dusky damsel of 18 or 20 summers.
For the credit of humanity we will suppose that illegal foraging was all that they first intended. When the negro found that his hen house was being despoiled of his pretty chickens, he mustered up a sufficiency of courage to put his head out of the window and beg that a few at least of the brood should be spared to him for breed. Thereupon he was assailed by foul speeches and rude threats; brickbats were sent flying against his windows, and some of them threatened to enter the house and kill the old son of _____ .
Finding that there was a movement to carry these threats into execution, the old negro climbed up into his loft where he could look down on them, as he said, “like a eagle looking down on carrion.” About the time that he got up on the loft the door was burst open and a demand was made for the man who had spoken to them from the window. The women, to shield husband and father, declared that there was no man there.
In an instant the cabin was filled, a light was struck, and as the man was no where to be seen, a purpose more fiendish than that which had induced them to enter the dwelling, took possession of the marauders. The girl was at once seized, and with violence, alike criminal and brutal, they accomplished their fiendish purposes, one after another, in the presence of the father and the mother.
They then stripped the girl of their jewelry, ear rings, finger rings, a bracelet, and some of her choicest articles of apparel, as trophies of their diabolical achievement, and having done so, left.
The Judge, in disposing of the case, said that the ringleader, one H. B. Hopkins, should be drawn and quartered, but he would only sentence him to Tortugas for life, there to labor with ball and chain; Jordan M. Lee, a youth who took an active part in the proceedings and stood at the girl’s head with the bayonet at her throat, was sent to Tortugas for ten years; the others were all sent to the same place for three years each. Their names are Henry Dennis, James Lee, D. Rafften, John Thorpe, R. Wheeler, R. Coons, J Horan and H. C. Nelson. J Reil, the boy who turned State’s witness, and G. W. Scoefield, who was proved not to have been in the crowd, were sent back to their regiments.
From The Daily Picayune, March 3, 1864. OK to steal chickens I guess, but not to ravage women. Funny, I didn't find any mention of this incident on web pages referring to the 159th New York Regiment.
That he became the toast of every chamber-pot. His image was everywhere -- everywhere that there was a new chamber-pot.
[You]: Lincoln wanted him as his running mate in '64 ....
Ah, thank you for helping me make my point about Lincoln's "charity". Too bad Butler didn't accept the veep slot, we'd have had a truly memorable Reconstruction, with show trials and mass hangings of former Confederate officers, black-on-white race massacres a la Henri Christophe and Jacques Dessalines, a thirty-year, scorched-earth guerilla war with no prisoners and no quarter, and a thoroughly clarified view of Lincoln's legacy. We could have been introduced to the horrors of the 20th century 40 years early.
Ben Butler was a very effective and popular general and politician. His successful management of Louisiana brought it back into the fold early, his handling of blacks set very inportant precedents, his handling of the logistics for the Army of the Potomac in it's [sic] water transportation was invaluable.
Where'd you get that claptrap -- your favorite Southern Poverty Law Center hate-pamphlet?
Now, CP, you know that you're out of line. When Wlat whips out his boxcutter and pastes another slab of The Federalist into our thread, you're supposed to take your whipping with good grace and fall down on your face and squirm and whine ineffectually, as befits a Southerner in the world that Wlat owns. You haven't the right to address him that way, as if he puts his pants on one leg at a time like everyone else. Hell, CP, Wlat is a Declaration Foundation man! A Unionist! Don't you know better than to disrespect his authority so?
And your point would be what, exactly?
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