Posted on 05/11/2002 5:43:33 AM PDT by moneyrunner
This is why so many Americans are puzzled over this current crisis.
They are accustomed to seeing heads roll in executive suites when there are scandals, or at least one head roll. So far, with over 200 priests credibly accused and most of whom were transferred after hush money was paid, no bishop or cardinal (except two bishops who themselves had abused) has been forced out.
Americans have also heard the many apologies John Paul II has made for various "sins" the Church has committed down through the ages, from the Crusades to Galileo's persecution.
But now, in the very midst of the worst scandal to rock the American Church (and it IS COMING to the Europeans and South Americans), the Pope can't figure out whether a zero tolerance policy is a good thing or not.
I'm surprised. I live in a fairly liberal parish and "choosing life" is in the Prayer of the Faithful every Sunday, we've got a pro-life kiosk in the vestibule of the Church, and set up white crosses on the main street outside the Church for the entire month of January.
But, what else can be said about abortion? It's conspicuously mentioned around elections, but we don't get lots of sermons about it because few Catholics procure abortions.
We had a priest who used to rail against abortion at least once a month until the pastor pointedly announced one Sunday that "Fr. Max has taken a leave of absence." He left the priesthood shortly afterward and married someone he met at an Operation Rescue protest.
The man lived, ate, and breathed pro-life, and I guess just got carried away.
Wow, what a shame. Must depend on the diocese/bishop. I've attened mass in the San Diego/Carlsbad diocese, as well as in my own (Phoenix), and we/they made no bones about it...abortion is wrong, period, end of story. And it's up to us to be vocal about it.
Not necessarily. There is no denying the historical lineage of the Catholic Church, and the sundry Protestant Christian denominations that have broken away and branched apart at various points. The very term "Catholic" means "universal", and from that perspective, Catholics view Protestants as members of Christ's "universal" Church, albeit somewhat as prodigal sons.
In essence, the Church already considers you to be "Catholic", even though you may not yourself. As an example: if you were to "convert" to Catholicism, it is highly likely that the Church would recognize your Protestant Christian Baptism as valid before the eyes of God. And since the Church only recognizes one Baptism for the remission of sin, it would be unnecessary to be "rebaptized" into the Catholic Church. The same is not true for non-Christians. (This does not mean that there would not be some form of formal Catholic instruction and indoctrination required for "conversion", but hopefully it partially explains Catholicism's perspective regarding being "THE" Christian Church.)
So, has it just occurred to all people at once?
The Pope lets the wheat grow up with the weeds. Perfectly biblical.
Dear Concerned Parents,Grandparents, and those who care!:
As the Executive Director of Survivors And Victims Empowered, and Managing Editor of Treating Abuse Today, I am outraged that the University of Minnesota is going to publish Judith Levine's book, Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex.
Levine's book is a manifesto for child molesters--and will create an even greater epidemic of child molestation in this country than already exists. Every day I see the results of the devastating consequences of child molestation on children and on adult victims of child abuse.
Levine's book will be used by homosexual and heterosexual child molesters, as well as pedophiles to legitimize the sexual abuse of children.
Levine's previous work provides us a clue to her pro-pedophile thinking. In an article published on the pornographic Nerve.com web site, Levine says this: "Yes, humans have bodies, which from birth appear to seek pleasurable touch as surely as slugs seek moisture." In another comment on Nerve.com, she describes a Sally Mann photo, "The Alligator's Approach," which shows a naked three-year-old as "sexy."
She describes men this way: "Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to ....construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced."
Here are some of Levine's views on adult/child sex published on the University of Minnesota web site: "My book says that sexuality is a fact of life, and a potentially wonderful part of growing up for children at all stages of their lives. It's not sex itself that is harmful to children, but the conditions under which they might express themselves sexually...."
Levine says the greatest danger to children is the "...conservative religious agenda that would deny minors all sexual information and sexual expression." Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura Must Stop Publication Of A Book Promoting The Sexual Molestation Of Children! I am urging you -- as a concerned parent -- to call upon Governor Jesse Ventura to use his authority as the leader of Minnesota to stop publication of Judith Levine's pro-pedophile/child molestation book! This is an outrage--and must be stopped!
State Representative Tim Pawlenty, majority leader in the Minnesota House of Representatives has shown courage in asking the University to stop release of Levine's book. Let us hope that Governor Ventura follows his lead.
Judith Levine is recommending that adults engage in criminal behavior with children! All states have statutory rape laws on the books. She apparently wants adults and children to break these laws so they can pursue "pleasurable touch."
The University of Minnesota is a tax-funded institution. It should not be funding a book that urges citizens to violate the laws of the state by sexually abusing children!
Please sign the petition below to Governor Ventura. If Judith Levine wants to promote pedophilia and sexual abuse, let her join the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) and post her views on this group's web site. She does not deserve to have her views promoted by the taxpayers of Minnesota!
Sincerely, Jim Hughes Executive Director Survivors And Victims Empowered Publisher: Treating Abuse Today
Dear Governor Ventura: As a concerned citizen, I am calling upon you to use your authority as Governor of Minnesota to stop publication of Judith Levine's pro-pedophile book, Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex to be published by the University of Minnesota Press.
Levine's book is a call for the normalization of adult/child sex and will contribute to an increase in child abuse throughout Minnesota and the rest of our nation. Child molesters do not need more encouragement to sexually abuse children. The recent scandal of child abuse within the Catholic Church should serve as a warning children need to be protected in our culture from sexual predators. The University of Minnesota is giving aid and comfort to pedophiles by publishing Levine's book.
The taxpayers of Minnesota fund your university and should not have to support the publication of a book that advocates the violation of state laws against adult/child sex and child abuse. Levine's book is a call for criminal action on the part of adults to sexually abuse children. This must be stopped!
I am urging you to cancel publication of this book immediately! Your state must not be involved in an effort to promote the molestation of children or the breaking of state and federal laws against sexual abuse!
I agree with the views recently expressed by Jim Hughes, Executive Director of Survivors And Victims Empowered (SAVE), a child abuse recovery group, that if Judith Levine wants to promote pedophilia, let her join the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) so she can publisher her views on their web site. The taxpayers of Minnesota and your state should not provide her credibility and a forum for her pro-child molestation views!
Please take a stand against this woman's efforts to normalize adult/child sex! Cancel publication of her book immediately!
got to www.millionsofamericans.com you can sign the petition.
But you … fairly lactate over the opportunity. And show your true colors with your opening.
”Some might argue that there is a difference in a military pilot, pursuing a legitimate secular agenda” Are only secular agendas legitimate? ”dropping bombs” you stop just as the bombs are released. What about following them all the way down to the ancient city of Dresden and seeing the city turned into an inferno which sucks the air out of the lungs out of men, women and children unless they have already been roasted in the firestorm that was set to destroy and kill indiscriminately the almost totally civilian population. You might be interested to read about the morality of “the military pilot Pursuing a legitimate military objective.” By the way, both before and after WW2, those responsible for this atrocity defended the military necessity for it.
In 1941 Charles Portal of the British Air Staff advocated that entire cities and towns should be bombed. Portal claimed that this would quickly bring about the collapse of civilian morale in Germany. Air Marshall Arthur Harris agreed and when he became head of RAF Bomber Command in February 1942, he introduced a policy of area bombing (known in Germany as terror bombing) where entire cities and towns were targeted.
One tactic used by the Royal Air Force and the United States Army Air Force was the creation of firestorms. This was achieved by dropping incendiary bombs, filled with highly combustible chemicals such as magnesium, phosphorus or petroleum jelly (napalm), in clusters over a specific target. After the area caught fire, the air above the bombed area, become extremely hot and rose rapidly. Cold air then rushed in at ground level from the outside and people were sucked into the fire.
In 1945, Arthur Harris decided to create a firestorm in the medieval city of Dresden. He considered it a good target as it had not been attacked during the war and was virtually undefended by anti-aircraft guns. The population of the city was now far greater than the normal 650,000 due to the large numbers of refugees fleeing from the advancing Red Army.
On the 13th February 1945, 773 Avro Lancasters bombed Dresden. During the next two days the USAAF sent over 527 heavy bombers to follow up the RAF attack. Dresden was nearly totally destroyed. As a result of the firestorm it was afterwards impossible to count the number of victims. Recent research suggest that 135,000 were killed but some German sources have argued that it was over 250,000. Whatever the figure, it was probably greater than the 51,509 British civilians killed by the Luftwaffe during the whole of the Second World War and the 70,000 immediate deaths at Hiroshima after the dropping of the first atom bomb on 6th August 1945.
Internal Royal Air Force memo (January, 1945)
Dresden, the seventh largest city in Germany and not much smaller than Manchester, is also far the largest unbombed built-up the enemy has got. In the midst of winter with refugees pouring westwards and troops to be rested, roofs are at a premium. The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front, to prevent the use of the city in the way of further advance, and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do.
Alexander McKee, Dresden 1945: the Devil's Tinderbox (1982)
From a firestorm there is small chance of escape. Certain conditions had to be present, such as the concentration of high buildings and a concentration of bombers in time and space, which produced so many huge fires so rapidly and so close together that the air above them super-heated and drew the flames out explosively. On the enormous scale of a large city, the roaring rush of heated air upwards developed the characteristics and power of a tornado, strong enough to pick up people and such them into the flames.
Margaret Freyer was living in Dresden during the firestorm created on 13th February, 1945.
The firestorm is incredible, there are calls for help and screams from somewhere but all around is one single inferno.
To my left I suddenly see a woman. I can see her to this day and shall never forget it. She carries a bundle in her arms. It is a baby. She runs, she falls, and the child flies in an arc into the fire.
Suddenly, I saw people again, right in front of me. They scream and gesticulate with their hands, and then - to my utter horror and amazement - I see how one after the other they simply seem to let themselves drop to the ground. (Today I know that these unfortunate people were the victims of lack of oxygen). They fainted and then burnt to cinders.
Insane fear grips me and from then on I repeat one simple sentence to myself continuously: "I don't want to burn to death". I do not know how many people I fell over. I know only one thing: that I must not burn.
But enough of dealing death wholesale from 30,000 feet. That’s modern, antiseptic (except for the victims) and most of all, a secular necessity. You have a real devil in your sights:
”…a church official lingering over the most horrible torture of an individual who happens to have a different idea about God.”
You forgot to include in your word picture the torturer smacking his lips, perhaps tasting the blood of his victim, the diabolical laughter. That’s what happens when you get your history from Hollywood and trashy novels.
” There is an indefensible element of personal "twistedness" in the latter that can't be chalked up to "well, they just weren't as morally evolved as modern people."
No, it really takes secular modern morality to run the Gulag, fire the furnaces at Dachau, and burn the people of Dresden. To do that with a clear conscience, you have to worship at the feet of Man.
” You'd be hard pressed to find any ancient religion that tortured and murdered people because of their beliefs, and the Inquisition was the fruit of a mature Catholic faith at the height of its power.”
You’d be hard pressed to find any ancient society that did not torture and murder people because of their beliefs, and for many other lesser reasons. And, in case you didn’t get it, that was one of Sobran’s points.
That was true to some extent because protestant churches did not have a loyalty beyond the borders of the country. The pastors were local leaders of local churches. There was no reinforcement from outside of their own communities, no bishop or pope to stiffen their spines. Ah, but God should have been enough! Ah, but they were men and some resisted nobly and died nobly but many others went along or even discovered reasons to support the evil closing on them. The Catholics , even when a local priest succumbed, knew that that priest was not the last word, that higher levels of the Church were outside of Hitler's purview and thus the Catholics resisted better. Many priests were processed through the camps and many individual Catholics.
The Protestants were not more craven from than other men but had not the support that the Church could give to its weaker pastors and parishioners.
I wasn't "hard pressed to find any ancient religion..." It took me one second.
As William Thomas Walsh wrote (TAN books) in "Characters of the Inquisition," the FIRST Inquisitor was Moses. "Moses put to death, in the name of religion, a far greater number of human beings than Torquemada did...
Read Exodus 32:25-28. TWENTY THREE THOUSAND KILLED IN ONE DAY per the order of Moses,
Now, I could go on and cite other instances where the First Inquisitor ordered THOUSANDS killed, but, I think the point is made. Moses had more killed in ONE day than did the Catholic Inquisition in 300 years.
The reason so few even stop to think about that is that hatred of the Catholic Church causes EVERYONE to use the Inquisition as THE referent for intolerance.
But, FACTS illustrate they weren't even with galactic distances of those killed by order of Moses.
Had they not existed in the 16th Century, you'd be on a prayer mat bowed to Mecca even as we speak.
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