The Catholic Ogre

Sobran Web Site ^ | 4/25/02 | Joe Sobran

[moneyrunner]

I am not Catholic, but Sobran hits the Catholic haters ... and the Christian haters ... right between the eyes here. I disagree with him regarding Protestants getting a free pass. Only those Protestants who change their religion to reflect current values and mores get a free pass. Those who maintain their age-old faith get the same treatment as the Catholics.

[HiTech RedNeck]

We are no longer horrified by the modern habit of bombing cities from airplanes. The practice has become rather dully conventional. Modern man takes it for granted and bears no grudges against the patriotic pilots who do it in obedience to their rulers; but the Catholic savages of the Middle Ages would have found it incomprehensibly cruel. Of course this may only show how primitive they were. How could they possibly understand the necessities of the modern world? We are taught to despise them both for their cruelty and for their humane scruples.

The point is often brought up (valid or not) that technological advances are what made the difference between the scale of the cruelties of yesteryear and those of today. By the way -- I don't blame so much the church itself as the governments that got in bed with it. And Catholics are not necessarily the worst offenders. The widespread winking of Protestant churches at Nazism was a significant factor in Hitler's meteoric rise to power.

[HiTech RedNeck]

a ping to a few catholics... is there a list?

[moneyrunner]

”The widespread winking of Protestant churches at Nazism was a significant factor in Hitler's meteoric rise to power.”

I guessed that it would not take long for Christian bashers to rise to the bait.

[independentmind]

. By the way -- I don't blame so much the church itself as the governments that got in bed with it.

I think you have your story exactly backwards. The history of the Church's struggles have at least as much to do with secular rulers who were resentful of the Church's perceived power and influence.

[independentmind]

HiTechRedNeck is not a Christian basher. He just has --shall we say--reservations--about Catholics.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I'm a funny "basher" -- because I'm a fundie Protestant. I am just being frank about the situation in Nazi Germany. The Protestant churches dropped the ball. They were lukewarm (as were also most of the Jews).

[moneyrunner]

Blaming Christians does not require either facts or logic. It’s simply a game with a victim that, in this day and age, does not fight back.

[moneyrunner]

If you are a “fundie” Protestant, you no longer need to feel the guilt of having brought Hitler to power. I was there. Whoever taught you was wrong.

[ladyjane]

I would guess that freepers with the names campion, aquinas and xavier are good bets.

[moneyrunner]

Reservations? Is he one of those who pretend that Catholics are not Christians?

[HiTech RedNeck]

Even though a fundie, I can't sit and NOT care about the Catholic church. Because it's one enormous organization out there earnestly stating to the world that it is "the" Christian church. I think that theologically it has painted itself into a corner of bad doctrine that it probably can't recover from before Christ's return, but I don't hold that as a certitude.

[Arthur McGowan]

HiTech Redneck is not a Christian-basher. There were plenty of Protestants and Catholics who supported Hitler. I've seen pictures of the processions of priests, altar boys, and nuns, with candles, crosses, and swastikas.

In the same way, while the pro-life movement for more than a decade was almost 100% Catholic, Roe v. Wade was authored by a Catholic (Brennan--Blackmun was a front man), and the "Catholic" states have two pro-abortion Senators, while only where the Catholics are a tiny minority are there two pro-life Senators.

The Democrat party is the "Catholic" party, and it is the party of sodomy, treason, genocide, and thievery.

When we say that "the Catholic Church" opposes these evils--especially abortion--we mean that THE POPE and SOME OF THE LAITY oppose them. The Bishops and Priests have been mostly absent and silent on abortion for 35 years.

[HiTech RedNeck]

What I believe is that a Catholic becomes a Christian in exactly the same way a Protestant becomes a Christian. I.e. he puts his trust directly in Jesus Christ for his eternal life. Being a "Baptist" is no more a ticket to heaven than being a "Catholic."

[Domestic Church]

The Democrat party is the "Catholic" party, and it is the party of sodomy, treason, genocide, and thievery.

Good Grief! Catholics who are regular communicants following the Magisterium are not in lock step with the Democrats. It is the CINO's, the Christmas & Easter bunch that are the problem. The Democratic party is the CINO party.

[HiTech RedNeck]

How do the Cardinals weigh in on the issue?

The issue of abortion, like the issue of sexual immorality, is one where I greatly admire the official Catholic position. The only thing I can really fault is the almost total Catholic concentration on the theme of "oh, what an evil in the sight of God." Well yes it is an evil in the sight of God, but WHAT ABOUT THE HUMAN VICTIMS?? (Born, or unborn.) To miss this issue is to miss one of God's chief stated concerns in the matter. It's not a matter simply isolated between God and the individual offender.

[rovenstinez]

Here in Mexico, the ARCHIVES OF THE NATION, The Spanish Inquistion, WAS a church instituted apparatus, totally in accord with the titular government that was always placed by the clergy. Separation of Church and State was a Reformation idea, and did not exist in New Spain. So to say that the SPANISH INQUISTION "wasn't a church purge," but a government operation is not being truthful. Volumes and volumes of records here in Mexico,.... I don't know where the idea of 5,000 deaths come from?

[HiTech RedNeck]

And, actually this sparse attention to the victims, seems to apply more to sexual immorality (in which there are many more victims than the fornicator himself).

As far as abortion is concerned, Catholics have been doing a fair job of pointing out the "vulnerability of the unborn" though the overall impression still seems to be of a rather otherworldly and theoretical point of view, almost begging listeners to think "oh, that's just a Catholic theological thing -- I'm not a Catholic (or a faithful Catholic) so why should I care?"

[HiTech RedNeck]

Ping (who's xavier?)