Pentagon to Cancel Weapon System (bye bye crusader)

(AP) ^ | ROBERT BURNS

[Poohbah]

TLA = Three-Letter Acronym

AFLA = Another Four-Letter Acronym

[Tennessee_Bob]

if we always get air superiority and control the sky above the enemy,

To put it simply - because airplanes can't always fly.

[rangerX]

I get it now.

[Poohbah]

The technology is coming on fast for 24/7 close air support in all weather--fog, rain, hail, snow, you name it.

[verity]

Congress is expected to put up a battle to save the Crusader, whose development is an economic boost for states closely associated with the program, including Oklahoma, where it would be assembled.

Always has been; always will be!

[Tennessee_Bob]

We were saying that over ten years ago when we were first working on bringing the LANTIRN system online. They're getting better at it.

It's more than just weather though, it's also aircraft availability, aircrew availability, whether or not you have the munitions on hand and so forth.

There will always be times when you need X number of aircraft here and Y number there, and then just when you have the equation solved, the bad guys throw Z into the formula.

[Poohbah]

It's more than just weather though, it's also aircraft availability, aircrew availability, whether or not you have the munitions on hand and so forth.

Gosh, that's just like any other endeavour

There will always be times when you need X number of aircraft here and Y number there, and then just when you have the equation solved, the bad guys throw Z into the formula.

And the Crusader wouldn't be THAT much better than the Paladin, or the PzH2000--the Army rewrote the Crusader specification to specifically exclude the latter system.

[MadRobotArtist]

Yeah, Shinseki is setting us up for a fall. So are a lot of people in our government. Since we dropped the bomb on Japan, some politicians think we need to be weaker so everyone else has a chance. Remember these says as the glory days of America, because in 20 years, our nation will look nothing like it does today. It will become the depository of the world's refuse, as our nation is balkanized by third worlders, and ruled by One Worlders. When we are weak enough to be taken by China and Russia, you can believe they will make their move. Our nation will be torn apart by Mexicans, Russians, Chinese, and every other piece of third world garbage who came here illegally. Our government will be willing accomplices as all of these people's seem to have every politician by the short hairs with their special interest groups, and special rights.

This is what Rome looked like before it fell. It's people were brainwashed, over taxed, unrepentant, and completely robbed of any kind of self governance. They were brainwashed into accepting evils as normal. Our government with the people of foreign nations, and illegal immigrants, as well as the refugees we fly into our country, has sold us a bill of goods that will eventually turn our nation from the sole super power, into the toilet of the world. A literal dumping ground for the world's garbage, and human refuse.

When Russia doesn't tax it's citizens into submission, they seem to have no problems collecting revenue, and it certainly seems like they are getting their house in order. It's nice to know that they've managed to do that on the backs of American workers. Just like China, France, Somalia, and every other 2nd and third world toilet around the world. As the governed we allow our government to do what it wants. Why? Don't we elect these people? Why can't we get them to do what our nation needs first? Oh wait, since I'm just the average citizen, I'm not supposed to care right?

[bruinbirdman]

How many professional lobbyists am I reading here? yitbos

[USMCVet]

To answer your question, FOG-M ended up with a price tag of $250K per shot. The Army let it die, as it should have.

The Crusader is another one of those answers to a non-existent requirement: who said that we needed a "howitzer" that weighed 40 tons (how many bridges are there that will support that weight?), as complex as a shipboard gun mount (maintenance nightmare), and as accurate as a thrown rock? In the pursuit of more and more range, we have settled for systems that just scatter projectiles out there...essentially mulimillion dollar "noisemakers".

The idea is to get the round on the enemy, first try: that way you don't need a lot of resupply vehicles, and the war's over a lot earlier.

In short, junk the Crusader, develop light, mobile systems that hit things.

[Mr Rogers]

Don't know much about the Army systems, but I'm working acquisition in the USAF...seems like the current trend is to shovel money at contractors until the contractors cry "Uncle!". If this system is bad enough to get cancelled, it must REALLY suck!

[rightwing2]

With this latest wrongheaded decision to kill the badly needed technologically advanced Crusader SP artillerty system, I am finally starting to sour on old Rummy. He has done a splendid job of trying to fight Bush's gutting of our strategic nuclear arsenal even though Bush won out in the end. However, his cutting of Crusader combined with his expressed disappointment with prime-tank killer GEN Shinseki himself at the pace of Army transformation to a tankless army has removed a lot of goodwill I have had for the man. I mean the nukes are more important so I still think he is good overall, but as an Army staffer and former Army tanker his support for gutting the Army and eliminating our all of our tanks and tracked vehicles, much of our artillery, and cutting 2-4 Army divisions is extremely disturbing.

[Ford Fairlane]

The technology is coming on fast for 24/7 close air support in all weather--fog, rain, hail, snow, you name it.

The technology is also coming on fast to knock down any airborne system as soon as it comes over the horizon. It is probably a little farther off, but the prototypes are VERY impressive. When that happens, we will need artillery.

We will end up in a major ground war in China in the next 50 years, and they have always been able to buy our latest technology.

Half of the contract engineers working on the new technology are Chinese nationals here on those stupid "high tech" visas.

[Poohbah]

We will end up in a major ground war in China in the next 50 years, and they have always been able to buy our latest technology.

Which explains those MiG-21 and T-55 knockoffs they use...and those Luhu DDGs that have been sitting incomplete in the shipyard for 13 years because we froze their marine gas turbine orders in 1989...

[Ford Fairlane]

I was thinking more of things they bought illegaly - like MIRV technology & the ability to launch something from china that can hit the mainland U.S.

[Ford Fairlane]

And I'd sure hate to be one of our boys going up against one of the SU-28's they bought from Russia - those things can dance like an F-16 and take a beating like an F-4

[Poohbah]

I was thinking more of things they bought illegaly - like MIRV technology & the ability to launch something from china that can hit the mainland U.S.

They already had them. MIRV technology isn't really useful except in the context of the more bizarre forms of intellectual onanism known as "nuclear warfighting strategy."

[Poohbah]

And I'd sure hate to be one of our boys going up against one of the SU-28's they bought from Russia - those things can dance like an F-16 and take a beating like an F-4

I'd LOVE to see a Chinese pilot who gets fewer hours in a year than his USAF counterpart gets in a month try to dance with an F-16.

[Ford Fairlane]

My point is if we are close to developing technology that will make air support virtually obsolete, there is no gaurantee any potential enemy wont come up with it too. If that happens, and air support is not useable, I want to be able to call in artillery, and I want the most advanced system possible.

The original Crusader concept had a lot of stupid problems, but most of them have been fixed. I think there is a place for it in our inventory, maybe not in huge numbers, but I dont think it should be totally eliminated.

[Poohbah]

My point is if we are close to developing technology that will make air support virtually obsolete, there is no gaurantee any potential enemy wont come up with it too. If that happens, and air support is not useable, I want to be able to call in artillery, and I want the most advanced system possible.

First off, I don't think we are. MANNED air support, maybe. But not air support in general.

The original Crusader concept had a lot of stupid problems, but most of them have been fixed.

Not really. "Swept under the rug" or "renormalized specification" does not mean a problem is "fixed."