Mardi Gras Party Priest Resigns

The Smoking Gun ^ | May 7, 2002

[Florida SunGod]

I cannot honestly and frankly answer that question because I'm single and have no kids. But I do not automatically mistrust someone because of his/her sexual orientation. I try to not label people. I judge each person on his or her own behavior. OK the priest in question should probably not be a priest. But I wonder, how many of you would feel the same about him if he had been hanging out on a street corner handing out beads to see a flash from women? Would that be "OK"? I think not. So the larger question is: Should the Catholic Church finally catch up to the 16th century when Martin Luther broke from it (forming the Protestant Church) for reasons including the prohibition on marriage for priests. Priests still have biological drives and needs, how are they supposed to deal with them? Question none of us are empowered to answer but one the next Pope needs to consider IMHO...

[Florida SunGod]

Thanks for that link it was interesting. I was not aware of that particular controversy between the two in question. And FYI, I'm not some bleeding heart Liberal/leftist. I'm a card-carrying Republican who is by and large pretty conservative. I just think some people put far too much emphasis on what happens in a person's bedroom based on some of the comments on this topic generalizing about gays and pedophile behavior.

[Billthedrill]

You are correct about Mr. Malthus, although remember he didn't do too badly with the statistics available at the time, circa 1800. Increase in food production simply isn't really linear, although the numbers available at the time led him to conclude that it was.

We do have starvation in the world, but it is very seldom the direct result of population growth outstripping food production. I can think of a couple of examples where disease was the culprit (the post-Plague famines of the mid-14th century and the Irish Potato Famine) but in modern times it is nearly always a consequence of politics. It isn't that human beings are helpless, it's that we're stupid.

[Romulus]

But I wonder, how many of you would feel the same about him if he had been hanging out on a street corner handing out beads to see a flash from women? Would that be "OK"?

See #38, above.

[Florida SunGod]

Hahaha. Amen to that. Some more than others but a valid point. But over population in this context I presented as merely a variable as in: What if every sexually capable adult were straight and reproducing. I think we would be in trouble.....

[Florida SunGod]

"They don't even have the excuse of a psychological disorder; they're just suckers who've been shaped and conditioned by the porno culture in which we're all made to swim." So your views are confined to clergy alone, or the population at large? "Porno culture"? Sexual repression is often unveiled in such comments you know....

[FBDinNJ]

Malthusian thought has been widely discredited. When Malthus wrote his Essay on Population in 1798 the Industrial and Agricultural Revolutions hadn't even occured, which make his ideas irrelevant. According to the current population statistics the Earth's total population will plateau at 10-11 billion people around the year 2050.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

I know you describe yourself as a "card-carrying Republican" but you may want to check that card again. Your propensity to label others as "homophobic" and "sexually repressed" merely because they do not support the gay lifestyle suggests that you've swallowed someone else's talking points. (At least on this issue.)

[sit-rep]

Piss off you passive son-of-a-bitch. You look the other way why our society and culture go down the tubes. What they do is their own business... Ya right! While they bang each other in the back side and give oral sex to each other in public, that's okay with you...

You want to compare me with Hitler? Well kiss my lily white ass...Hitler accepted the Homo's too. Remember the Brown shirts? Get your history right idiot.

Now go right ahaed and hit the abuse button. There is to many Homo lovers around here for my liking anyway...

SR

[Florida SunGod]

Actually I'm not a "homo lover". Far from it. But I don't label them perverted simply because of their orientation either. Hitler was a closet case himself from what I have read, but where do you think the "pink pyramid" symbolism came from? Hitler made gays wear it. What about J Edgar Hoover? He systematically and ruthlessly found and kicked out any gays he could trap within the FBI while being one himself. And I have not bought into anyone else's position. I am merely saying being gay is not inherently wrong, perverse or betraying tendencies for being a pedophile.

[Florida SunGod]

"While they bang each other in the back side and give oral sex to each other in public, that's okay with you..." No actually it isn't, but if one goes to Mardi Gras one can expect to see such behavior, wouldn't you think? And the carnival festivals in Rio. I don't approve of heterosexuals carrying on in public like that either! For any orientation I say "Get a room!" and beyond that it's none of my business what they are doing....

[Romulus]

Sexual repression is often unveiled in such comments you know....

Sterile insolence, in defense of a sterile biology. Are you sure you want to wear out your welcome this way?

That you should disavow the culture of sexual liberation while embracing its rhetorical clichés suggests an unresolved conflict in your own psyche that you might consider addressing someday. In the meantime, may I remind you that the authentic conservatism you affect to profess is deeply rooted in a sense of natural law and restraint of all sorts -- cultural, personal, political, and economic? The sexual "liberation" that you consider an escape from repression is actually an invitation to mutual exploitation and slavery to reptilian appetite. This career in self-coarsening has as its end the substantial impairment or even loss of empathy, introspection, and self-awareness.

If you want to talk repression, have another look at those poor souls pictured in this thread. Their determination to desensitise themselves to decency and dignity, not to mention snuff any memory of natural law and healthy human relations, is pitiful and a sorry spectacle for the rest of us. If you do not see here a whistling-past-the-graveyard defiance of vestigially puritan Americans unable to come to terms with their own guilt and shame, you have no eyes to see.

[Armando Guerra]

Hmmm, after having done this post and gone away for a day it is interesting to see the direction it has gone. From a moral, personal and political standpoint I do not agree with homosexuality. I do not necessarily believe, however, that every gay person is out there looking for a teen boy to molest. Unfortunately, the statistics have shown that the vast majority of problems with the priests have been as a homosexual issue. I also do not agree with Malthus that people will starve as a result of population growth. They starve as a result of famines created by politicians.

All of that being said, I do not think it is the point. You have a priest hanging out with drag queens and biker dudes, grabbing their ass, strutting his stuff shirtless. All behavior unbecoming his vows of priesthood. You can argue all you want whether it is appropriate behavior for a person in general while at Mardi Gras, but it is definately NOT appropriate behavior for a priest. This priest has gone against his vows and the teaching of the Catholic Church. He was properly forced to resign and I hope the Church will be asking more priests to do likewise.

[Armando Guerra]

I stand corrected. I did a search, but there was more out there than I really wanted to know. The source I read from was a little more mild and did not go into sexual details. However, you did answer my question, so thanks. For those out there who were also curious, here is what the website had to say:

Armbands worn on the left indicate a more dominant role and the submissive role is indicated by wearing an armband on the right arm.

I guess the butt grabbing "reverend" is the dominant aggressor since the photos show his armband on the left.

[Florida SunGod]

Fair enough. My reaction was in large measure to the generalizing on gays as being perverted and automatic pedophiles. I agree this guy should not be in the priesthood, but I do not see him either as an automatic candidate for pedophilia due to his orientation. In theory, priests and nuns are not supposed to have any sexuality at all which is an unreasonable and unnatural expectation IMHO.

[Armando Guerra]

In theory, priests and nuns are not supposed to have any sexuality at all which is an unreasonable and unnatural expectation IMHO.

True, that is why it is a vocation and a religious person will require God's help to succeed. When you turn from God and look to fulfill your personal desires instead, you are not abiding by your solemn vows.

[Armando Guerra]

As a further note, I am not a priest but I am married. I made a solemn vow that includes fidelity to my wife. I have heard MANY people argue that lifelong monogamy is an unreasonable and unnatural expectation. However, I have not found it difficult because of my love for my wife. I have also made darn sure I have not put myself in a position where I may be tempted and fail. That would just be asking for it.

The priests who have failed have loved themselves more than God and have given in to their own gratification. However, avoiding the temptation to fail is also necessary. The priesthood is a fraternity of men where close living is part of reality. It also may involve ministering to teen boys. You are just asking for trouble when you allow homosexual priests. The avoiding of temptation for trouble when close proximity is required is also why men and women should not serve together in the military, nor should the military allow gays. (Although now that I come to think of it, maybe it would be okay to allow gay men to serve in all female units?)

[Florida SunGod]

But God gave men and women sex drives. To deny our biological needs is folly IMO. Martin Luther broke from the RCC because of the prohibition on priests to marry (in part, there were like 13 theses on the church door in Wurttenburg if I recall, the selling of indulgences was another issue). My whole argument boils down to the fact that I do not equate gays to being de facto perverted and or more likely to be pedophiles. I have known more than one gay person, and outwardly they have all been the same as you and me. What causes some people to be that way and not others? Some say it's a chemical imbalance yet medical science has yet to find exactly what imbalance might cause it. Some say it's a "choice" but I disagree. A person is either born that way or not. How many people try to live a "straight" life and fail because it just is not who they are? I think sexual relations between consenting adults is no one's business but the adults in question. Do I approve of marital infidelity? Hell no! Nor do I think one should wait until marriage to have sex nor do I think sex is merely for procreation. If it were I think our mating habits would be more regulated like most animal reproductive patterns. Do I think gays are "evil" or sinful? No. God made them the way they are for a reason, I don't think any of them asked to be born "gay". Do they (or should they) parade their sexuality in bizarre fashion? No. But much of that comes from a self-defensive position given societal prohibitions and disfavor with their sexuality. I think the priests guilty in exploiting/abusing children (or anyone abusing a child for that matter) should be castrated. If they cannot handle their drives then remove what causes it. In Turkey the Sultan's seraglio had eunuchs serving it. If the Catholic Church is so bent on its priests and nuns being celibate and unconstrained by a sex drive, maybe the Sultan had the best idea....