Lincoln s Spectacular Lie

LewRockwell.com ^ | 4/29/02 | Karen De Coster

[WhiskeyPapa]

There is ample ground for people of sound understanding, good will and with good historical knowledge, to find Abraham Lincoln worthy ov vilification.

No there is not.

These things are matters of opinion and are not ultimately resolvable one way or the other.

Yes, they are.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

... Not that I expect even such an obvious thing to carry any weight with the master debaters on the other side.

take out the "de" and what do you have?

Can you tell I was in the military?

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

I don't intend to respond to your posts in the future, nor will I bother to read any more of yours.

Cool.

I don't think I ever made a post that was really directed to you any way.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

You spent your time on this instead of proving through the words of Lincoln and Douglass that Lincoln thought blacks were inferior, as you suggested earlier?

Why was that?

Walt

[r9etb]

Both of your quotes are referring to the status of the states with respect to the Constitution prior to their ratification of it. The arguments put forth are a recognition that the Constitution codifies not a union of people, but of states. As such, ratification must come from the states, not the people thereof.

For purposes of ratification, each state was quite reasonably considered to be sovereign, in that its ratification or rejection of the Constitution would otherwise be meaningless.

After ratification your argument carries no weight at all. Ratification meant that the states explicitly and voluntarily bound themselves to the "perpetual Union" of states that the Constitution was explicitly created to perfect.

[WhiskeyPapa]

In his interest, in his association, in his habits of thought, and in his prejudices, he was a white man. He was preeminently the white man's President, entirely devoted to the welfare of the white man. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people, to promote the welfare of the white people of this country.

-- Fredrick Douglas, 1876

Sure sounds like words of love to me huh Corky?

Sounds like BS by you to me.

Where does Douglass say that Lincoln considered blacks inferior to whites?

You took that position, but you'll not support it in the record.

Walt

[one2many]

I believe you will have the pinko running back to
Messrs. Ferrier and Quackenbusk yalping for "hep" on this one!

LOL!!!

Good lick!

[WhiskeyPapa]

Fantasies are nice Wlat, but they don't apply to Constitutional law. I take it you have ignored facts yet again. A "perpetual" union does not, I repeat, does not exist. How many times do you have to dodge that fact Corky?

I guess I'll just scratch my head and compare your statement to that of every Supreme Court Chief Justice on record as saying it IS perpetual.

This means, of course, that you are just totally ignoring my ealier post where I quoted Jay, Marshall, Madison and the rest that the Union --is-- perpetual.

Big surprise.

Walt

[r9etb]

He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people, to promote the welfare of the white people of this country.

A very convenient omission in this quote is that Lincoln's entire administration took place during the Civil War, in which Lincoln's stated and primary goal was to preserve the Union. Douglass seems to be echoing Lincoln's comment that if he could win the war by freeing the slaves, by freeing half of them, or freeing none of them, he would do it.

That is a commentary on winning the war, not on Lincoln's views of the slaves, or of black people in general.

The salient fact here is that if Lincoln had failed in his bid to preserve the Union, he most certainly wouldn't have been able to do anything at all about the slaves.

The reasonable person, however, would look at Lincoln's abolitionist past; the fact that he issued the Emancipation Proclamation; and the fact that his party passed the 13th Amendment; and conclude that Douglass is incorrect.

The most reasonable explanation here is that Douglass was reacting to events after Lincoln's death (which obviously cannot be blamed on him). Either that, or you're quoting out of context. Either way, the conclusion you mean for us to draw from Douglass's quote is not supported by the facts.

[r9etb]

one2many: I see that you treat quotes in the same manner as Mr. DiLorenzo.

Admin Moderator: Please compare #71 to my original post at #60. If one2many adds this to his flame list, I will ask you to adjust the situation.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Either that, or you're quoting out of context.

Out of context.

This is the same speech in which Douglass said that Lincoln's actions were "swift, zealous, radical and determined", when considering the fact that Lincoln had to consider what the country would accept.

Walt