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Sharon's plan is to drive Palestinians across the Jordan
The Sunday Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 04/28/2002

Posted on 04/27/2002 5:25:11 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: All
What Israel should is to outlaw the Muslem religon in Israel and the captured teritories, much the same as the Muslems do. Make it a crime punishable by death or long prison terms, just as the Muslems do. No practatcing of non Jewish or Christian religions in public.

What are the Muslems going to say, that this is unfair?

161 posted on 04/27/2002 9:08:00 PM PDT by babygene
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To: MissAmericanPie
"..LOL.."

Be carefull....the PC swat team will be on you quick! The Pro Pali's came out of the woodwork after me. :o)

162 posted on 04/27/2002 9:08:36 PM PDT by Icthus
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To: Torie
No, I don't buy into the Lucius theory as a viable or ethical solution, if that's what you mean. I'm far too much of a realist and have read too much European history to think that something like that would work (or could be justified).

Furthermore, I agree with you that a regime change in Iraq must be effected. Either that or a lasting isolation of Hussein and the Ba'athists that can only be achieved by a credible threat of invasion. Bush and the administration seem to be doing an incredible job on that front, imo.

My concern is that the Indians, North Koreans, or Chinese might be tempted to do something really stupid and dastardly while we are preoccupied with Iraq. In that case, Sharon would be tempted to gut the Palestinians because we would not be in any position to stop him.

I may be naive, but I am not too worried about an oil embargo--a serious one at any rate. That is the trigger for pushing the US to total adventurism in the M.E., a fundamental redrawing of maps, elimination of ruling families, etc. We can only regard an embargo as a weapon of mass destruction at this point.

163 posted on 04/27/2002 9:08:48 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: Torie
Actually France has more nukes than Israel.

I believe that demands only one course of action. France will be surrendering to . . . France.

Thank you. Good night. I'll be here all the week.

164 posted on 04/27/2002 9:10:18 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: El Gato
Ya, if they leave voluntarily. If it is house to house, it will take weeks. Only the sanguinary "solution" will create speed. Something along the lines that we are going to incinerate this town in 24 hours ala Dresden. Many will chose to stay as "martyrs" and thus the sanguinary bit, and thus Israel ceases to be deemed a part of the West, and I suspect in time, would cease to be a nation. But all that is speculation of course.
165 posted on 04/27/2002 9:10:21 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Southern Federalist
No apparently we just question the loyalty of other Americans if we disagree with them about Mideast policy. If they happen to be Jews.

No one cares about honest disagreements about policy. The problem is when some people present their arguments as disinterested when in fact they have another agenda which requires American interests to be subordinated to those of another country.

When has Safire ever written: "Colin Powell, is right. In the best interests of America, Israel has to show restraint." When has Krauthammer ever said: "Israel has 100 to 200 nuclear weapons including neutron bombs. It has the best fighter pilots in the world. It has spy satellites, cruise missiles, submarines, the world's fourth most powerful army. Iraq is a danger to Israel. Therefore Sharon ought to make immediate plans to launch an attack and take her out."

That's what an honest commentator would do. Instead what we get is a bunch of columns about Bush losing his moral clarity. I have net to see an article by these guys suggesting that Sharon has lost his moral clarity. Doesn't it strike you as strange that these writers never criticize Israel. If for no other reason than the law of averages you'd think once in a while they'd write a column saying, "Hey, much as I hate to admit it, this time Sharon is wrong and Bush is right."

166 posted on 04/27/2002 9:11:11 PM PDT by DentsRun
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To: Icthus
You left out India.

I have a lot of confidence in this administration, though. Despite all of the flak he's taken around here, Colin Powell has done an impressive job of managing our diplomacy in this period. We won't do Iraq until we can be sure these destablizing events are off the table.

167 posted on 04/27/2002 9:12:07 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: Torie
Actually France has more nukes than Israel.

Today, the President said that the US will prevent the destruction of Israel. The US has more nukes than France, and we WILL deal with the cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

168 posted on 04/27/2002 9:13:06 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla; torie
France is certainly not going to threaten the use of nukes or risk a confrontation with Israel over a transfer. They would prefer to wait, let the US take the heat and the risk, and then see to Israel's future destruction through diplomatic ends. It's the smart thing to do, and the French--damn them--are pretty smart when it comes to this stuff.

Of course, the great irony is that we are here dealing with the fruits of Bonapartism and national revolution, as invented by...the French!

169 posted on 04/27/2002 9:16:26 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: sobieski
How can you say that Sharon doesn't want to ethnically cleanse the West Bank? That was the plan of the late Tourism Minister Zeevi. It's a policy that has cabinet level approval in our Western, democratic ally.

You're playing word games. You can't jump from the fact that Zeevi wanted to expel the Arabs to saying Sharon wanted the same thing. Your phrase "cabinet-level approval" is just a phony way of trying to turn Zeevi into Sharon. If you can prove Sharon has such a plan, do so. Otherwise, stop lying.

On the other hand, I have little doubt that the Arab "peace" plan is for Holocaust II.

Land for Peace ... Again?! The Saudi Sucker Punch

The War Process

170 posted on 04/27/2002 9:16:43 PM PDT by mrustow
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To: cicero's_son
Agreed....we manipulated the situation to our and Israel's benefit. I hadn't given India alot of thought, but you're probably right.

The question boils down to this.....

If the China/NK/Iraq scenario actually does develop, do we use small tactical nukes to freeze everybody in their tracks....or would that escalate the madness?

171 posted on 04/27/2002 9:17:17 PM PDT by Icthus
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
I thought you were Finnish. I do know that the Fins like to drink. They seem to perform well under the weather as well, since they have one of the highest standards of living in the world. Whatever.
172 posted on 04/27/2002 9:18:09 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Oh, the US will turn Marseilles into glass. Silly me.
173 posted on 04/27/2002 9:18:58 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
"..the cheese-eating surrender monkeys.."

LOL!!!

174 posted on 04/27/2002 9:20:12 PM PDT by Icthus
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To: AmishDude
And, frankly, in the context of having been constantly attacked by her neighbors since her inception, I cannot, in context, think of too many instances where I can forcibly oppose Israel's actions. I would have gone much further.

I have never said Israel didn't have the right to defend herself. As far as I'm concerned she can do whatever she feels is necessay--as long as she leaves the U.S. out of it. Right now, the U.S. is more of a Sharonista than Sharon is himself, which unfortunately means America's honor, reputation and ultimately its safety too is in Sharon's hands--a truly sobering thought.

175 posted on 04/27/2002 9:20:37 PM PDT by DentsRun
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To: DentsRun
I've got a news flash for you: there are no disinterested arguments in politics. So, singling out Jews as having an agenda is silly and pernicious. You have your agenda, other people have theirs. But there are still better and worse arguments. I suggest you attend to the merits of the arguments, instead of trying to short-circuit debate, by casting suspicion on Jews.
176 posted on 04/27/2002 9:21:04 PM PDT by mrustow
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To: cicero's_son
Well this scenario had Marseilles turning into glass, so I just had to assume that that would put French nukes in play. But what do I know? But yes, somehow I don't see the French going in to save the PA's bacon, unless the payoff is rather immediate and tangible and pecuniary. Maybe the Saudis will handle that part.
177 posted on 04/27/2002 9:21:37 PM PDT by Torie
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To: AmishDude;DentsRun
He was speaking of national loyalties and you know it.

I don't think McCain supporters are loyal to the USA or the Republican party. Podhoretz, Kristol, Safire and Goldberg jumped on the McCain express to nowhere because they are, like McCain, are no good. Worse in a way because their motivation for supporting McCain was one issue: Evangelical Christians were going to be marginalized out of the Republican party. No longer would they, at their upper west side cocktail parties, be ashamed to be politically associated with those people.

Now those people are the biggest supporters of Israel around and Podhoretz, Kristol, Safire and Goldberg are crowing about what wonderful people they are. The four of them are bigoted phonies and you know it.

178 posted on 04/27/2002 9:22:18 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: Icthus
"If the China/NK/Iraq scenario actually does develop, do we use small tactical nukes to freeze everybody in their tracks"

In my opinion--no. The risk is too high. Remember Mao's comment about China (...you can nuke 500MM of us, and we'll still have 500MM more...). And now, of course, they have their own nukes, multiple re-entry warheads, ICBMs capable of reaching (I think) every American city. No--nukes will be used in China's neighborhood.

In fact, if China were to invade Taiwan, the sad truth is that we would probably have signed off on it beforehand. It would be regarded as part of the price of our operation in Iraq, the price of keeping China out of the Arab's corner as their patron superpower.

Russia is also a key to this, I think. Will they become a European power or be drawn under the Chinese shadow in this century? That's the prime time game, imo. Frighteningly enough, I think China has more to offer them. At the very least, they can probably ensure Russia's armed neutrality.

It's a dismal situation. Thank God we have this administration in place to deal with it. We need a Metternich...or even better, a Bismarck.

179 posted on 04/27/2002 9:26:36 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: AmishDude
It was clearly an attempt by Saddam to rally the vaunted "Arab street" to send scuds to Israel.

True. Iraq attempted to draw Israel into the war.

180 posted on 04/27/2002 9:26:54 PM PDT by rdb3
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