Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

'Intelligent Design Creationism and Its Critics': Supernatural Selection
The New York Times ^ | 14 April 2002 | JIM HOLT

Posted on 04/14/2002 12:31:25 AM PDT by sourcery

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 281-297 next last
To: F16Fighter
Dave Hunt is an internationally known author and lecturer who's written more than 20 books (as of 1996).

Stephen King has written far more than 20 books and you don't take him seriously, do you?

161 posted on 04/15/2002 5:53:29 AM PDT by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Junior
"Stephen King has written far more than 20 books and you don't take him seriously, do you?"

I may not "take him seriously", but I DO know who he is, while noting writing twenty books or so happens to be an accomplishment NO MATTER who one is or isn't.

162 posted on 04/15/2002 6:06:38 AM PDT by F16Fighter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: Junior
Reality by fiat is even less attractive.

Aren't you Roman Catholic?

163 posted on 04/15/2002 6:22:43 AM PDT by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
Yes.
164 posted on 04/15/2002 6:35:43 AM PDT by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: F16Fighter
With all due respect to your credentials (hello?) as an accomplished writer and researcher of scientific, religious, and occultist theory,

I can't vouch for or comment on the quality of any of his other writings, but the posted excerpt shows someone seriously ready for a change in medication. He actually managed to bring into his paranoia -- all at one shot -- the Greeks, evolution, the occult, mysticism, the Garden of Eden fable, Hinduism, witchcraft and reincarnation.

I've never seen that done before, and it really tastes of the "they're all out go get me" syndrome.

165 posted on 04/15/2002 7:11:33 AM PDT by Quila
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: F16Fighter
I may not "take him seriously", but I DO know who he is, while noting writing twenty books or so happens to be an accomplishment NO MATTER who one is or isn't.

There's a guy in Brazil who's written several hundreds of books. He is known for being able to churn out an entire, rather thick, novel overnight. The novels are completely formula, devoid of any real literary value, yet he can meet your requirement in less than a month.

BTW, Isaac Asimov wrote over 400 novels, serious and fluff fiction and serious nonfiction (his works on the Bible and Shakespeare are quite insightful and show serious research and study), and yet that doesn't make the fundies here respect him any more because of his atheism.

166 posted on 04/15/2002 7:22:28 AM PDT by Quila
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: Junior
Reality by fiat is even less attractive

Yes, thus my point to jennyp concerning who gets to decide what "reality" is, since we both apparently agreed that there were over 250 million "datasets"(I will assert all different) in the U.S. alone. The correct answer, in my opinion, is a personal one, and being such denies the necessity of both a committee and fiat definition.

167 posted on 04/15/2002 7:35:07 AM PDT by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

To: Quila
"He [Dave Hunt] manages to bring into his paranoia -- all in one shot -- the Greeks, evolution, the occult, mysticism, the Garden of Eden fable, Hinduism, witchcraft and reincarnation. I've never seen that before..."

Yeah -- impressive ain't it? ;-) If you care to check out this particular book, which also delves into the scientific, spiritual and historical dynamics of UFOs, Ghosts, Drugs (coincidently), critiques of Christian sects and their ties to the "occult", and other goodies, the book is called 'Occult Invasion'.

It is possible to be both entertained and enlightened by either Isaac Asimov OR Dave Hunt without "respecting" either one I suppose.

168 posted on 04/15/2002 7:51:45 AM PDT by F16Fighter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: jennyp
Popper is, of course, correct that natural selection may be formulated in a non-tautological way. The trouble is that in the polemics between atheistic materialists who want a creation myth of their own, and theists, it never is. This is precisely why the sociology of Darwinism-as-creation-myth is an impediment to scientific progress on the issue: any particular non-tautological version may be falsified, requiring an improved version, and that process cannot be seen going on, as it will weaken the club with which materialists attack theists.

Any particular non-tautological version is a proposal for a "theory of fitness" (at least in a restricted setting), and thus exactly the kind of thing I insist is needed, and the kind of thing which, when provided in general will supply more order than will support the argument-from-no-design.

169 posted on 04/15/2002 8:22:01 AM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: Junior
Reality by fiat is even less attractive.

And Panda by Fiat is even less so.

170 posted on 04/15/2002 8:44:30 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: F16Fighter
Is this the "Dave Hunt" being discussed?

Dave Hunt, Leading Anti-Catholic Fundamentalist

Of course, I don't know who Aufill is either.

171 posted on 04/15/2002 8:51:11 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic
ROFL ;-D
172 posted on 04/15/2002 8:56:54 AM PDT by BMCDA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic
I've been waiting for Fiat jokes.
173 posted on 04/15/2002 9:02:34 AM PDT by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: sourcery; Jeff Gordon; Rudder
Intelligent design is not creationism.

Such is only a tie that's made by those who have an anti-intelligent design agenda.

The intelligent designer of the ID theory can as easily be an advanced race elsewhere in the universe. It does not have to be a "god."

The proposition, quite simply, is that the ID math model says there's too much complexity on earth for the allowable time in which all this complexity is supposed to have arisen.

174 posted on 04/15/2002 9:08:03 AM PDT by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
[|]CLOAKED[|] Lurking, leering ...

Just so long as you're not flashing ...

... That platypus of yours isn't pretty.

175 posted on 04/15/2002 9:09:16 AM PDT by Gumlegs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: xzins
The intelligent designer of the ID theory can as easily be an advanced race elsewhere in the universe. It does not have to be a "god."

Unfortunately, ID ultimately means God. Did those advanced beings evolve naturally? If so, why couldn't life on this planet evolve naturally? If those advanced beings are supernatural, you come around again to God.

176 posted on 04/15/2002 9:21:54 AM PDT by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: Junior
I've been waiting for the Fiat company to introduce the Lux.
177 posted on 04/15/2002 9:22:20 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 173 | View Replies]

To: Junior
Unfortunately, ID ultimately means God. Did those advanced beings evolve naturally? If so, why couldn't life on this planet evolve naturally? If those advanced beings are supernatural, you come around again to God.

That does not follow.

It makes sense to accept that the origin of life in another part of the universe could have a more readily demonstrable explanation to which we could all say "Aha! If only I'd known about this process, then I could see how it all fit together.""

Who says earth has to be the center of the universe?

It would be like finding a research station on Antarctica and trying to force an explanation of its origin by insisting that we use only the conditions available on Antarctica.

178 posted on 04/15/2002 9:35:35 AM PDT by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: jennyp
But this is another evolutionary "just-so story": if an ecological niche were occupied by 'immortal unless slain' creatures, evolutionary biologists would devise another story to show how the survival strategy of perserving individual organisms and replacing them only at a slow rate was vastly superior in the face of the survial pressures faced in that ecological niche to competing survival strategies of more prolific reproduction and short life-spans.

I am, perhaps, being a little too scornful in calling it a "just-so story". I call it this because it is claimed to be a "prediction" of a general theory--which I would argue it is not precisely because evolutionary biologists would behave as I have indicated. In fact, the account given is a proper scientific theory in its own right, which can be tested and falsified (by finding a population of slowly reproducing 'immortal unless slain' organisms), modified to account for the contrary data (provided the new modification is still testable) and so forth.

179 posted on 04/15/2002 9:45:23 AM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: Gumlegs
Just so long as you're not flashing ... That platypus of yours isn't pretty.

Is that a platypus in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?

180 posted on 04/15/2002 10:05:38 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 281-297 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson