Posted on 04/12/2002 3:13:14 PM PDT by rumplestiltskin
What a narrow escape! What a perfect punchline!
What a blessing there is no such thing.
In fact, HUMANAE VITAE insists upon the openness of every sexual act to conception.
Sex is not always procreative.
No, it's not. Which means that the CONTEXT of avoiding conception is important. Does the couple wish to avoid children altogether? Or, does the couple have five children, and feel that they can't afford any more? In which case, how does a condom differ from NFP?
Technically, that leaves every sexual act open to conception (God willing), but you and I and the scientists know that this will not be the case.
The way you stated it, it sounded like every sexual act had to have conception as its end and I don't think the Church has ever held that ... defending as she does the unitive aspect of sex.
I believe I asked askel this once and she posted a thread to discuss it and her reasons. I believe her stance was that using NFP to avoid children is wrong because it is twisting the meaning of it for selfish use. Askel, correct me if I am wrong on exactly what you said.
I may not agree, but I do know that she has addressed this before.
Since NFP is also "birth control," we're discussing methods, aren't we?
Every sexual act between married couples must be open to conception, according to HUMANAE VITAE.
I got the impression -- and I'm sure one of the better educated Catholics will correct me -- that the marriage had to be open to children and that it was always okay to use restraint to "plan" your family.
You and I seem to be in full agreeement. Congratulationas.
You know, Sinkspur, utopian logic is a such slippery thing.
I speak from experience when I say that every sexual act -- even those committed with all due confidence in the birth control on is using -- IS open to conception ... God willing.
Strange and sad, isn't it, that it's this ability of God's will for Life to trump our selfishness which resulted in the sanctioning of death with Legal Abortion.
Not as its "end," but every sexual act must be "open" to children, according to HUMANAE VITAE.
Now, we know that sexual acts in which couples who use NFP aren't open to children, and acts in which couples who use condoms aren't open to children.
In CONTEXT, the couple who use the condoms have five kids, and the couple who used NFP have no kids.
So, which relationship is "open" to children?
When you refrain from sex, you're not having it. So there's no conjugal sexual act be perpetrated that's willfully unopen to conception.
Lol ... that'll be the day.
Folks who resist the urge on a regular basis generally end up with far more desire -- lasting YEARS longer than your average couple.
It's inevitable they screw up, so to speak.
#@#@# internet, reading a lot of poorly spelled posts.
It's getting so I can't even proof my own posts. Might help if I got a dictionary.
I think I spelled opossum with two 'p's yesterday, too.
No, that's not true. When a couple uses the natural female cycles, the couple can KNOW when to have relations and when not. Which means that certain sexual acts are NOT open to conception.
This differs not at all from those acts which use condoms or barrier methods, in which chosen sexual acts are NOT open to conception.
Do you see now why Catholic couples have a hard time distinguishing between natural and non-natural contraceptive acts?
Maybe.
Perhaps we should see if -- in the history of religiously practiced NFP -- we can find the Catholic couple with no kids. =)
I understand what you're trying to say, it's just that folks who really don't want ANY kids probably will just sterilize themselves or use contraception.
I think NFP's a perfectly moral alternative to artificial contraception which has benefits far beyond the spacing of children for college tuition purposes.
So, if a couple uses NFP to avoid having children altogether, though the ACT is sanctioned by HUMANAE VITAE, do they sin?
If they sin, is it because their relationship is not OPEN to children? How is that different from a couple whose marriage is OPEN to children, but uses a different method of avoiding conception?
The family, not the individual, is the basis of society. You know that.
You know, I'm a little disappointed OPH and Riley have never in all this time gotten tanked up and come over to TP that particular Sex Thread ... =)
Ciao, Bella ... trust all is well.
Really. What about a couple who doesn't want children but follow the dictates of HUMANAE VITAE and use NFP for twenty years?
How is a couple with five children who use contraceptives morally inferior to a couple with no children who use NFP?
Yes, all is well here. Hope things are good with you too.
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