Posted on 04/08/2002 7:26:21 AM PDT by fortress
Yes, I think the medical term for a woman over 35 having her first child is "elderly primipara." No joke.
After reading "BIAS", I understand. Bernie ask a reporterette why she never consulted with any conservative women's groups. The woman's answer will amaze you ... "it never occurred to me".
Interesting, huh?? Maybe Leslie read BIAS.
Sure they were. You in all your self-righteousness grouped me and my wife in among those you would term the "self-centered," the "greedy." Wholly incapable of addressing my points, you glossed-over your foolish harangue by attempting to marginalize us as an exception, "congratulating" our success, yet within the same breath touting your position as "scriptural" and Biblical, while by contextual implication mine somehow was not. How completely disingenuous
I cited several Biblical examples which support my position. Your position pretends to a Biblical basis, yet for all the Biblical posturing you've done, you have yet to produce Scripture to support what you "believe" is "Biblical". Plenty of sniviling contempt for successful people who don't hold your position, but alas, no scripture. No surprise there for me either. I've interacted with your type in self-styled "Christian" circles for years. What you "believe" isn't "Biblical," merely because you believe it so.
....sacrifice, yes, of course, but to describe it as quitting and make it sound fatalistic and a bad example for the children, well, that smacks a little much of defensiveness on your part.
The defensiveness is all yours. I'm not the one attempting to defend a decision they made to walk away from their career.
To insinuate that the decision that she made sets a bad example for our children is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard.
Call it that if you like, but it doesn't make the fact any less so.
Do you honestly believe it is a better message that Mommy's or Daddy's job is more important than being in the home, that it's more important to 'not quit' and drop them off at the babysitter's door or in grandma's lap or at the local daycare center where someone else can watch them take their first step, hear their first laugh, their first word?
There's the root of your problem. Your reasoning is fudamentally flawed. One's career and one's desire and ability to parent do not have to be mutually exclusive. God does not declare them to be so either, despite your nominally Christian belief system. This is that myopia which you suffer from about which I pointed to earlier. It is a box that people like you have put yourselves into, while at the same time oozing your distain for those who will not be confined by your self-limited perspective.
I also do not appreciate the implication that she was not good at what she did.
Read more carefully. I did not say or imply that she was not "good" at what she did. If I thought she wasn't good I'd tell her to quit and we'd both be on the same page. I said she was perhaps "ill-suited" to her career-- it simply wasn't the best fit. If one realizes these things sooner rather than later in life, there is more time in one's life to do what one does best. What I did say was that by your account, she was a good at what she did. What a shame to turn away from the gift of a developed talent all under the color of what you term as "sacrifice." We are not called to hide talent "under a bushel." Walking away a from a career with a developed talent is not so much "sacrifice" as it is an unfortunate moth-balling of one's developed talent. As the parable suggests, to do so may risk the losing of one's talent entirely. It's a cause and effect thing, not a judgement thing. One will give an account someday for the use and development of one's talent. I don't see anywhere that praise is to be expected for one who moth-balls God-given talent.
...she recognized that the biblical principle, as we understand and believe it, is for the mother to be the keeper of the home.
I'll grant you "belief," but I'm still waiting for evidence of any "Biblical principle."
The world also labels Christianity as restrictive because of all the so-called 'rules and regulations'. However, for those who truly believe, there is nothing more liberating than that relationship with the Savior. It's all a matter of perspective.
"Rules and regulations" are what the Pharasees reveled in, and your myopic perspective is just that: more "rules" and the sitting in judgement of those that don't conform to your peculiar interpretations thereof. As though you have the only answer to the "true" Christian meaning of child-rearing. How pathetically self-deluding.
We will all ultimately be judged by a higher power.
I for one do not fear judgement by God. It may surprise you to conclude that you shouldn't fear judgement from God either. Continue to stand in judgement of everyone else in this world like you do and be prepared to be judged yourself.
It’s clear that women should be responsible for their households and put their families ahead of their careers. Scripture does offer a great example of a woman who does both things well, the Proverbs 31 woman. She puts the Lord first and then takes care of her family before heading to the marketplace. She knows her calling and obeys.
We believe it is God's will for my wife to be at home. God's will for your family may very well be different. I don't think it is constructive to be derogatory to each other simply because we have different convictions. As I stated previously, I do not find the Scriptures to be black or white in this area, like many other areas of life. It would be much easier for us if God had simply published a book of clear guidelines for us to live by. In some cases, He has, but I believe in His infinite wisdom, in many other cases He purposefully did not. He expects and desires for us to seek Him out and seek His will for our lives. This presumes a close, intimite, personal relationship with Him that is first and foremost what He desires most from us.
If you put the Lord first in your home and seek His guidance in all things, and this is the path He has directed for you, then who am I to judge? I would not presume to judge in the first place. My initial response on this thread was aimed at answering the prevalent attitude in today's culture that we should not have to sacrifice anything in life, that we should be able to have it all. I'm sure that both you and your wife have made many sacrifices in your lives to balance things as you have. However, as I stated, the prevailing modern attitude is that sacrifice is unacceptable because 'me' and what I want is most important. My response was to the 60 Minutes special that interviewed single career women who felt that, at age 40, they needed to have a child to feel complete. Never mind that there was no father (another discussion) or that the child would undoubtedly be stuck in daycare. My perception (be it wrong or right) was that it struck me as extremely selfish and self-centered of these women to do so.
They are not worried about truth, never have been, they aren't worried about women either for the most part, simply promoting their own male hating agenda.
Finally, an admission we can both agree on. Now that that is settled, perhaps you can find it within yourself to look more charitably upon others who also hold this view, not continue to paint such individuals with careless and loose generalities, and that you'll stop sitting in "black and white" judgement of their motives.
If you put the Lord first in your home and seek His guidance in all things, and this is the path He has directed for you, then who am I to judge? I would not presume to judge in the first place.
But you did...me and alot of other people, and that's why I called you on it. If in fact one puts the Lord first the last thing one is allowed to do is to sit in judgement of other fine Christians going about their business as they too believe God sees fit.
As I stated, I do not presume to sit in judgement, your thought to the contrary notwithstanding. I made my point in my last post to you as to why I responded the way I did to the 60 Minutes show. Those were not 'careless and loose generalities'; rather an honest response to a sad situation. If my candor bothers you, then I am sorry.
But you did...me and alot of other people, and that's why I called you on it. If in fact one puts the Lord first the last thing one is allowed to do is to sit in judgement of other fine Christians going about their business as they too believe God sees fit.
Well, we disagree. I did not intend to do so. If that is your perception, well, then, again I am sorry you perceived it that way. I do not make it habit to sit in judgement on people. That responsibility is God's alone, and frankly I am more than happy to leave it to Him.
The truth of the matter, as I stated previously, is that there are many areas of the Christian walk that are not black or white. I only wish more of the general society could see that and not just see the relatively small minority that has no compassion or sensitivity toward their fellow man. That is not to say one should exhibit moral ambiguity, because I believe that the Scriptures are very clear on morality. However, the basic belief in Christians as being intolerant is the unfortunate result of the minority few.
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