Frank Zito says he shot police because they broke his door{ unreasonable search and seizure }

The Star Democrat ^ | April 04, 2002 | By: BRIAN HAAS

[#3Fan]

Cap'n Crunch's solution is the Constitutional and Correct one - apply for an arrest warrant. Disturbing the Peace and Failure to Obey a Lawful Order come to mind....then they can enter the residence legally.

The guy still would've shot them. He's a murderer.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Seein's how I get an A, I'd like a doughnut and a Guinness-Extra Stout.

[Cultural Jihad]

Their previous failures forgotten, they'll be back in a few weeks with some new criminal candidate for martyr.

Doesn't the destruction of property give the militia nutcases a license to commit murder?! A screen door is worth about two lives in the dopertopian mind set.

[Abundy]

Judging from the responses on this thread, the reason for psych evals prior to joining up is readily apparent.

When you get into town I have just the thing for you...the owner has a special pressure tap system...and the GES are great.

[Abundy]

but around here, if a scumbag breaks the law, the problem is dealt with without tying up a department all night and without digging through precedents or whatever to see what to do about someone who's just needs to sober up. People who have no respect for their neighbors and make all kinds of racket in town are scumbags.

I see you are from Illinois...your post bears out that there's not a lot of respect for 'legal falderol' in IL.

[Cap'n Crunch]

LOL, It's the ACLU's fault!

GES, nectar of the god's.

[#3Fan]

I see you are from Illinois...your post bears out that there's not a lot of respect for 'legal falderol' in IL.

Problems are taken care of though.

[Roscoe]

A screen door is worth about two lives in the dopertopian mind set.

Police Officers interfere with their "Constitutional right" to do drugs.

[supercat]

Also, that cop #3, the one that pepper sprayed Zito. He sure showed some incredible restraint. I would like to think that had it been me; Mr. Zito wouldn't have to worry about testifying in court. Bring pepper spray to a gun fight?

What was the state of Zito's shotgun when officer #3 sprayed him? If it was loaded, or if Zito had cleared it onto the ground, that would IMHO be a strong argument in favor of acquittal. Otherwise, there's no way someone with pepper spray could close to useful range against someone with a shotgun.

[supercat]

Zito threatened the officers who were in performance of their official duties.

Unless they had a warrant or eviction order, their entry of Zito's dwelling without his consent was not in performance of official duties.

[supercat]

Davis denied the defense's motion to suppress evidence on every point, though, saying that granting the motion would effectively give people whose rights have been violated free rein to kill police officers.

Well, there are obviously limits, since not all actions which would infringe someone's rights would constitute a felony from which one could not retreat. Anyone who enters another person's dwelling without lawful cause, however, and in such a way that the occupant reasonably believes he intends felony mischief, however, and gets shot should be deemed solely responsible for his own injury.

[capitan_refugio]

The police "took care of problems" in Nazi Germany too. That's the real problem.

[Poohbah]

What was the state of Zito's shotgun when officer #3 sprayed him? If it was loaded, or if Zito had cleared it onto the ground, that would IMHO be a strong argument in favor of acquittal. Otherwise, there's no way someone with pepper spray could close to useful range against someone with a shotgun.

There IS a way. Is it a double-barrel shotgun? Was it a pump gun with only two rounds ready? What were Zito's reactions after shooting the first two cops?

Also, you are misplacing the threat in time. The cops showed up in response to a noise complaint. They didn't attempt to enter the trailer until AFTER he threatened them.

[supercat]

What was the state of Zito's shotgun when officer #3 sprayed him? If it was loaded, or if Zito had cleared it onto the ground, that would IMHO be a strong argument in favor of acquittal. Otherwise, there's no way someone with pepper spray could close to useful range against someone with a shotgun.

There IS a way. Is it a double-barrel shotgun? Was it a pump gun with only two rounds ready? What were Zito's reactions after shooting the first two cops?

My wording was unclear. My point is that if Zito still had useful ammo in his shotgun, that should be a strong argument in favor of acquittal since the only way he would have been sprayed would have been if he allowed himself to be (rather than shooting cop #3).

Also, you are misplacing the threat in time. The cops showed up in response to a noise complaint. They didn't attempt to enter the trailer until AFTER he threatened them.

My impression of the chronology:

• Noise complaint phoned in
• Cops show up. Zito indiscretely tells them to leave. I don't know at that point whether cops had shown credentials.
• Cops leave.
• Cops get keys
• Cops return and break through porch door
• Cops unlock front door
• Cops get shot

I don't know how much time passed between the cops' departure and their return, but my impression is that Zito's first knowledge that they'd returned would have been the sound of his porch door being broken through; at that point, I see no reason for him to have believed that the people breaking through his front door were legitimate law enforcement officers acting in the lawful line of duty (which, btw, absent a warrant or exigent circumstances, they weren't)

[Cap'n Crunch]

The case of officer #3 certainly is strange, and I'm making an assumption on my part. But if he sprayed Zito that means (generally) he was having problems with him, resisting; whatever. If he was there at the initial call, or had even seen Zito with the shotgun I believe he showed quite a bit of restraint.

But, I don't know what happened with him.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Your right, the guy did make a threat, doesn't say what it was or how it was made but apparently he did threaten them.

[Poohbah]

Cap'n, as a private citizen, I can tell you how this thing would go down with SOME private citizens out there.

1. Private citizen goes to Zito's trailer and politely asks Zito to hold it down to a dull roar.
2. Zito carries on after threatening private citizen.
3. A short while later, Zito's trailer suddenly explodes due to a malfunctioning propane tank valve.

There are folks out there who have given up on calling the cops for a noise complaint o other civic disturbance, and will use rather draconian methods to resolve said dispute. If Zito walks, there's going to be a few more folks in that column.

[Cap'n Crunch]

LOL, it's getting to be that way all over. The criminal justice system is impotent, believe it or not the police are having their hands tied more and more, though sometimes it doesn't seem that way.

It's getting to be a joke actually.

[Poohbah]

You got it. I'm not crazy about it--I happen to like the idea of living in a civil society where firebombing the neighbors is not the preferred method of resolving petty disputes--but that's the way it's going.

[supercat]

The criminal justice system is impotent, believe it or not the police are having their hands tied more and more, though sometimes it doesn't seem that way.

The problem is that the cops are often simultaneously prevented from doing the things they should be doing while they are encouraged to do things they shouldn't. This is not the case everywhere, but it is certainly the case in some police departments and government agencies.

Given a choice between going after the criminals who run a notorious crack house or attacking a law-abiding citizen whose property would make a nice addition to the police department's collection, which option are police more apt to consider? The latter option is apt to be both safer and more lucrative.

The War on Drugs is not completely winnable, but the government might actually be able to do some good in its pursuit if it focused on going after criminals rather than harassing, if not outright attacking, 99.44% law-abiding citizens. Unfortunately, that's all too seldom its actual course of action.